To want to train as a doctor?

[Duggee]

It's always interested me and something I really want to do! Is it crazy to think of doing it with children in tow? I wouldnt want to start for a few more years, but would starting in my mid thirties be crazy?

What kind of doctor do you want to be? You will be training until you are 45-50. I wouldn't do it - you will end up with huge debt and it will be very stressful with children. I am a GP and the work is very stressful, people are demoralised. If you are sure you want to do it and nothing else will do then make sure you go into it fully aware of what it's like doing the job.

YABU just now- they're messing all the doctors around, screwing up training and career progression, and trying to cut pay, and increase anti-social hours.

YABtotallyU. And barmy. Don't do it. At least wait until the contracts and 'shape of training' debacle is settled either way.

In a few years, YmayNBU to go for it.

Unless you don't live in the UK, or intend to move out of the UK as soon as you finish medschool. In which case, YANBU. Good luck.

Absolutely crazy, I think. I considered it (I'm already a nurse and thought about doing graduate entry). The junior doctors change job every 6 months. They work a 5 day 'day', 5 day 'night' and 5 days off rota. The days are 8am - 9pm. The nights are 8pm-9am. They have to study in their own time.

I think with small children it would be a sacrifice too far.

I'm another nhs healthcare worker who thought about the graduate route and then decided I was bonkers.

Pay isn't that good. You're still training for years after finishing med school with big exams every year.

You're allocated a deanery circuit and get allocated a new job every year. Where I live that could be at a hospital 50 miles away, easily. So every 12 months you either need to move house/city/schools, or do a daily crazy commute. Or stay over in the week and only go home at weekends.

No. The life of a junior Dr was hard enough in my twenties, single, and two stone lighter. I'm now a consultant with children and the juggling and organisation can be overwhelming at times.

Go in with your eyes open if this is really what you want to do.

Saying that, I'm stumped if you'd ask me what else I'd do With my life.

The time when it was fun, rewarding, exciting, was in my twenties, no children, free to move home, move cities, take on new challenges, stay up all night.
Now in my forties, with children, all the responsibility and stress,
No, do something easier.

Do it! I'm doing graduate medicine and bar the meltdown I had two weeks ago it's amazing. I'm only 25, but have a toddler, a shift-working husband and over an hour's commute into London, so a fair amount of juggling going on. It's hard but manageable. There are loads of people on my course in their 30s, and some who'll even be 40+ once they finish.

I wanted to go into research and contemplated becoming a medical doctor ...treating and helping sick people seems a lovely idea ...what really put me off was thinking about the reality.
I remember sitting in A&E once waiting to be treated in a hospital in central London and I could hear the doctors treating a homeless old man with rotting feet. He (or his feet at least) obviously stank (they were spraying air freshener and one of the nurses retched). They knew him - from what I heard he came in to get warm, got fresh bandages etc and medicine etc went off didn't do what he was supposed to (couldn't... but also wouldn't) and then came back a week or two later for more treatment...they were giving him warnings about blood poisoning and amputation etc but it was almost like they were reading a script - they knew he would be back again...and they were telling him were to go to get help (hostel) etc but it seems he was thrown out for drinking...and he didn't want to stop.

I couldn't deal with that. I don't have the patience. The fact that I was wasting my time - he didn't want to be helped - or not in that way. It was all pointless.
And could I face those rotting feet? Did I really want to deal with them? What if he had a problem with another part of his body? How would I feel looking at his bottom? In fact did I really want to look at any old man's bottom? Anyone's bottom?

People forget... for parents it's not just a case of wanting the nearest hospital... some Deaneries are HUGE... it's nights... doubles on days and then cramming for exams.

Then you have to go where jobs for your specialism are... for me at 40 it's a 4 hour round trip as that is the least disruptive for my DDs

I really wouldn't if I were you. The training requires you to go all over the place. Twice I had my rotations changed less than 1 week before starting making my commute times really long. Some deaneries cover huge areas so you can be covering a huge geographical area. Also med school is tough. I know one guy who wanted to do graduate entry med, I told him how hard it was but he told me that he had done a "hard" degree (engineering) and was well up for it. A year later he conceded he was working far harder than he thought he would have to. In uni and in training (which last years) you will be spending all hours studying on top of working. What about a career like radiography, or physiotherapy, or nursing? Have a look at the other fields where you can be a little more stable after graduating I would say.

Also I'm only too aware if you told me all this before I did it, I probably would have still tried. But I was doing nights in my mid twenties, ten years later it would feel very different!

You've been told no by so many people.
Whilst my opinion may not count as much as the ones who have been in the situation of studying and doing the job,
But I wanted to say, if you really, really want to do it- get stuck in and try to reach your dream.
I've put off studying my law degree for seven years, I have now started and am so proud of myself. It'll be hard but this way at least if I don't manage to do it, I know I went for it and tried.
Good luck Hun xx

It's not the undergrad training I think is daft, as in the degree. I don't doubt at all that anyone who wanted to could get a medical degree if they bothered and worked. I know loads of people who fitted the degree around families.

It's the 5-10 years after that, when you get allocated your a low choice of deanery for the first 2 years (so a move, potentially to another country in the UK, if you're unlucky), then potentially again after that 2 years. With commutes either weekly, or potentially 4 hours a day if you don't want to move every 6 months to a year. Plus all the evenings studying you don't get paid for, and the exams you'll self fund. Etc.

If you have a stay at home partner, perhaps you'd be fine, apart from the money. If you have a private income, plus a full time nanny, perhaps you'd be fine (but not sane). But otherwise, with the way the government's going on, absolute madness.

Getting a graduate place at medical school is very competitive. Do you have a relevant degree and experience already? If not, I think you're just dreaming. I don't think you're too old though, if you really think you can make it work with your family.

Realistically I would tell you to think long and hard before applying (I am a junior doctor).

Graduate entry medicine is very competitive, and the first year is very hard.

When you qualify you will be on pretty low pay (even lower if the Tories get their way) and may be forced to work somewhere with a long commute. With children you can apply for special circumstances for foundation training, but this is something that may be withdrawn. There are no special circumstances for speciality training, which means you could be faced with a choice between moving to a far-flung part of the UK, or not progressing your career.

The hours and conditions are terrible, and not very compatible with family life.

Realistically I think that starting medicine in your mid thirties would be very hard. Not so much the degree, but the years that follow with virtually no choice in where you end up working, having rotas changed at extremely short notice, coping with night shifts/on calls. Pay isn't great and seems likely that pay and conditions will worsen.

It's not crazy. AFAIK some places offer degrees designed for older students. But often who come from other science degrees.
That would be my main concern.
I know someone who is doing it with two kids and is a single parent.

But do look out at what you can expect career wise. Don't just go for the idea of it.

Of course you can do it - it just depends on how much you actually want to and how much of a pipe dream it is.

Are you likely to get a place? As others have said it is very competitive and you may not get in. Where do you live - some medical schools eg St George's are more open to graduate entry than others

The undergraduate training is actually the least of the your concerns and once you qualify it is hard even with the EWTD and your location cannot be guaranteed. There are flexible training posts but they are now turning into jobshares and will prolong your training further.

Finally what kind of Dr to you want to be - if you qualify around 40 and want a job in a competitive medical or surgical speciality you are looking at another 9-12 years before you become a consultant.

Not for the fainthearted

I know someone who did it in her late twenties - starting with no qualifications at all as a lone parent with 2 DC...she's in her second year as an actual doctor (I don't know all the terms, I assume she's still a junior doctor?)

I know it's been hard going and taken a long time - but she's pretty happy she did it.

I don't know. Are you a sucker for punishment, and want to do this more than seeing your children? Have a husband who would stay at home or can afford a full time nanny on his salary alone? Can you stay up 12 hrs sleeep 2, deal with kids, go back to work? Sleep daytimes through child noise?
Can you take abuse without flinching?
Maybe.
I agree the undergraduate bit isn't the problem- if you have the intelligence and tenacity, it can be done.
Having done the junior doctor bit in my early 30s with 2 kids, my word. I did it, but I have no idea how. Sleep averaged 4 hrs a night for years, and I was still behind with my studying/ exams. I never had summer holidays until my oldest was in secondary school, because of rotation ( rotated jobs in August and February). Was never at school events.Some rotations, like the week days, week nights, week off, only saw my family every 3 weeks. It was he'll.
Do I love my job? I used to, though it has taken a life of sacrifice. Not anymore- the patient expectations are completely unrealistic, the government makes our life hell, it feels like I'm robbing Peter to treat Paul, and I can't do my job without risk of complaint or prosecution, and the government is trying to privatise by stealth.
Honestly? I wouldn't. Not worth the sacrifice these days.

As a doctor I urge anyone thinking of studying medicine to think about doing something else.

Another doctor here. I'd say in the current climate have a really long think about whether this is what you really want to do.

I love medicine and absolutely love the job, but right now, I've never been so demoralised. I don't love what others (and people with no clinical experience) are doing to the profession. I'd wait until the contract proposals get sorted at the very least.

I completed my medical school in my early 20s, it was loads of hard work and also loads of fun, I was single, no money worries, no responsibilities, could move easily every 6 months, stayed in hospital accomodations with other single doctors and had an overall fantastic time. However I cannot even imagine doing it at this stage of my life (mid 30s) with kids.
I completed all my training and overnight mandatory duties, exams etc within a year of getting married, and am in stress free branch of medicine. I would say you can do what you set your mind to, but it will be very difficult. best of luck with your decision.

Do something else, apply to be one if the governments new suped up physicians assistants. (A lot of registrars have said they might apply get better pay than doctors with less training)) You get paid for uni, only a few years and when you come out, less time than doctors, you can do everything a junior doctor can do, get paid more, have better hours, more annual leave.

You have no exam fees to pay either. The only downside is you won't have the career progression beyond junior doctor level. The government are doing it to save money in the long run.

No disrespect to anyone applying for it , as I said doctors are comsidering it!

Have you thought about nursing? You can progress quite far now - clinical nurse specialists can be working at almost registrar level.

Some universities (Southampton at least....not sure about others) are even offering dual field training -adult/mental health or adult/child - really useful for areas like A&E and the adult/mental health would be useful in any area.