To not want to hear anything about the suffragettes

[BrandNewAndImproved]

How am I meant to support a movement that was disgustingly racist just because I benefit from it being a white female.

The feminist movement is still subtly racist with a lot of white feminists refusing to see white privilege.

The argument of being of its time doesn't wash. Racism is racism and I refuse to support it.

They are referring to their own slavery. As women.

As in "stop treating women as slaves" and equally black people should not be slaves either.

I really don't think you can compare a few thousand white slaves to up to 100million African slaves

Compare? Where did I ask you to compare? Please read the post properly or ask someone to read it carefully and explain to you what I clearly meant.

Can a person not look at the past with a critical eye?

Does the good the people do cancel out their failings? What if the failings are massive too?

Some posters seem almost personally attacked by criticism of the suffragette movement, and of suffragettes

It is a bit odd tbh

Some posters seem almost personally attacked by criticism of the suffragette movement, and of suffragettes

Not really, most are shocked and correcting inaccurate things the OP has somehow got into her head.

If you read Emmeline Pankhurst's quote in its full context, perhaps you will see that it has nothing to do with the Confederacy 'rebels' and Black slavery:

"I know that women, once convinced that they are doing what is right, that their rebellion is just, will go on, no matter what the difficulties, no matter what the dangers, so long as there is a woman alive to hold up the flag of rebellion. I would rather be a rebel than a slave."

She was fighting for full personhood under the law, and quite rightly. The hysteria over the T-shirt slogan is attributing connotations to the quote which were never there.

Really? I must have missed that in all the defensive posts about how enslaved black people were just one group out of many who were enslaved, if you care so much why aren't you stopping modern slavery, and white women suffered too, not to mention, the civil rights movement was sexist, do you criticise that too

No Madge their are many posts explaining how Slavery isn't localised to black people, becuase, and i understand how this is hard they are trying to get the OP and people very much like you to realise the word slave doesn't = the word "black".

yy jasonandy

They are dissociating a word that some very stupid people seem to think is linked only to the black slave trade in order to put the quote into context.
It's not being defensive, it's not excusing things, it's educating.

I hate the way US history has leaked into other parts of the world like this.

No, the UK didn't use to collect demographic information about ethnicity in the census. The 1911 England & Wales census introduces nationality and whether people of overseas birth are resident or visitors, but doesn't mention race or religion.

The 1911 Scotland & Ireland censuses doesn't bother with the "visitor" Q but ask about Gaelic and Irish language respectively. Only the Ireland census asks about religion - and funnily enough, it's almost the first column of personal info after the name. Just like the race Q is on the US forms, before age or marital status or sometimes even gender. (The language and citizenship columns on the US census are way down the pecking order, nowhere near the race column.)

The UK does now collect demographic info about ethnicity, although of course the Q is what ethnicity do people self-identify as, not what has been assigned to them.

Can a person not look at the past with a critical eye?

An accurate critical eye, yes. Unfortunately the OP has missed the factual bit. As for the Dalai Lama comment, it was so far fetched it was nearly funny.

I hate the way US history has leaked into other parts of the world like this.

I'd just like to point out that the this aspect of US history had its origins in the British slave trade.

The UK does now collect demographic info about ethnicity, although of course the Q is what ethnicity do people self-identify as, not what has been assigned to them.

Race and ethnicity (which are separate concepts in the US) on the US census are all self-identified or not answered at all if that is the person's choice.

The Suffragettes were force-fed in prison. Utterly inhumane.

I can believe they are self-identified in US now.

But I'm looking at a 1902 Vermont birth record now. The blank form is in this order, new line for each so not about how to fit it all in.

BIRTH - FEMALE

Name of child:
Color:
No of Child of Mother:
Date of Birth:
Maiden Name of Mother:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Residence:
Full Name of Father:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Occupation:
Condition of Child as to Live or Still Birth:
If Still Birth Cause:
Name of Informant:
Town:
Town Clerk:

I was listening to a programme that said the force feeding had so traumatised them that the horror stayed with them all their lives.

Here's a modern slave story: www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/saudi-arabian-employer-accused-chopping-off-indian-maids-hand-kashturi-munirathinam.

It's from today.

Any thoughts on this woman, OP, or does her race preclude your giving a damn?

I was just shocked at this, because the England, Wales & Scotland civil BMD records have never mentioned race or ethnicity.

They don't even mention religion except to specify which rite of marriage, and even then you can't tell which (if either!) of bride and groom was of that religion.

this aspect of US history had its origins in the British slave trade

After Britian reduced and stopped supplying Black slaves, (which is what was asked for) the US continued to get them from Portuguese suppliers, it wasn't only the British.

Buffy, I didn't accuse her, I asked.

I've posted several posts refuting her claims that slavery is solely a black issue as I genuinely cannot work out whether she is racist or goady.

I'll ask clearly again, OP, is your point that only black people can have experienced slavery and that the suffragette quote is appropriating a black experience?

olive that's a really idiotic statement.

I'm not defending myself on shite. You have no idea what I do in my private life to support modern day slaves and I'd wager it's a lot more then you.

Olive that's a really idiotic statement

Well given the complete tripe you have spouted on this thread, you should know.

Could we possibly have a list of who is beyond criticism, and who must be hero worshipped to a fault?

Thanks very much

NB like Jason, I am in no way suggesting that there was not racism in the UK. Just that when the state takes racism into its own hands and embeds it in the bureaucracy, there are various results.

One of which is that people of colour become visible in the records (for good or ill) in a way they aren't visible in countries which don't do this.