Am I a bitch?

[Crazycatlaydee]

Long and boring alert!

I have a dtwin sister who I'm very close to but we have quite a tempestuous relationship (mid 20s). We're living in the same house right now which is fine but as much as I love her (and I do - if she wasn't there id really miss her), we can be unnecessarily cruel to each other (verbally) and sometimes just don't know when to stop. It's uncontrollable, we just don't know how to talk nicely to each other (but funnily enough we can have a laugh and a joke when with company and can be civil then).

Her big thing to use against me right now is that I'm a bit of a failure (I was maybe the more traditionally academic one at school but she went to the top top uni and I went to an academic but less prestigious one)... I'm actually having some time out of uni atm which my family didn't expect so that's why I'm fair game for this.

My "thing" to use against her is that she doesn't have friends This is patently untrue but i had a closer friendship group in the past and although it's a nasty thing to say, I say it when she upsets me (in anger) sometimes. She has told me how she hates it when I say it, and I do feel guilty and horrible.

I guess my point is, is it half and half? Am I the bitch? More importantly how can we get on??? I would really love to. If anyone has similar sibling stories and now you both really get on would love to hear

If I were your parents I woud have asked you both to leave by now. You are far too old for this immature bickering.

Fairenuff, I take your point but we're here for a few months (less than a year) while we respectively try to establish ourselves in careers/finish exams... Both have jobs to go to next year. So they are doing us a huge favour letting us live her but it is also benefiting the family as a whole I guess in the sense that they want to see us progress and hopefully do well!

Again (gosh feel like I keep saying this ), I've obviously recognised that we're bloody annoying to live with so would like advice if possible on changing this. Comments like yours aren't hugely helpful I'm afraid

It wouldn't make a difference to me if it was only a few months. I would make it very clear to both of you that you had one chance to act like an adult. If you couldn't do that, then you would be set free to make your own way in the world.

But then I expect that would be all it would take to make you both behave.

Ha ok fairenuff, that is a conversation that has been had but I'd imagine it's not that easy to actually do when your own progeny is in front of you with nowhere else to really go

Parents should give their children what they need, not what they want and right now you need a good dose of 'consequences'. If you have namby pamby parents who have already threatened this and failed to follow through then that might explain why you two still behave like children.

no worries OP xxxx

Ha sorry if I sound annoying, it's just that it would be good to hear real-life workable advice rather than just plain criticism! I probably only have myself to blame for that though having posted in aibu

So I have approached the possibility of counselling with her and she's flatly refused. Not sure where to go from here. She seems to think it's my problem and not hers. Interestingly she has received personal counselling in the past which has helped her.

I think I had a similar relationship with my dsis when we lived together, up to mid twenties. When you're in the home environment particularly you are compared and you know exactly how to push your dsis's buttons.

I think you could make a conscious effort to change things now - really just stop it. It's a bad habit. If you don't initiate it or relatiate, it will stop eventually.

But actually it just seemed to stop with us once we left home. Because our lives were totally different, different types of dp, different dc, different jobs, different circumstances. And our relationship became one of supporting each other through the crap that life throws at you.

If it's just a case of a few months I wouldn't worry too much. Just make sure you keep up contact in a positive way.

I have two dsis's and one of them I do have to bite my tongue a bit with. But I think once you've lived through each other's disappointments and hard times (and we all get our fair share), the competition aspect pales into insignificance.

OP, I have brothers who are identical twins. They're older than you and your sister, but their relationship is so toxic and dysfunctional it has pretty much destroyed our family. They are barely capable of being in the same room. I've watched them go from being unhealthily close as children, to their 20s when they went out of their way to prove their difference and independence from each other, to now where as I've said they barely communicate. It seems to me the reason they've got to that point is that they can't break out of the love/hate cycle. They need to be different, but it infuriates them when the other isn't the same as them. Does that make any sense?

Not at all surprised that your sister has refused counselling because that would mean she has to own the problem.

You could go yourself because basically it takes 2 to argue. If you learn strategies where you don't act in a confrontational way then she can''t argue with you. In the meantime you could try walking away or just ignoring her when she starts.

If the underlying cause is jealousy or envy over something then this is what counselling would help uncover but at the same time you might be like some couples who thrive on drama and your rows are actually a way of bonding because neither of you have learned to express your feelings for each other in a better way.

You need, very much, to get space from each other. You need to learn to treat each other as a separate person and not continue this borderline self criticism / desperateneed to outdo the other. Lots of siblings no exactly the buttons/ flaws of each other. But they learn distance, respect and stop competing.

If you stop doing it yourself, your dsis will have no-one to argue with and your poor parents can get some peace.

It is controllable because you can switch it off and be nice to each other when in the pub with friends.

It's your choice. You can decide to be nice and build a good relationship or choose to be destructive And hurtful

Have you ever tried an experiment? For a whole week be really kind
and loving

I know exactly what you mean OP. I think those who are expressing shock rather than anything constructive perhaps have not had any experience of a dysfunctional relationship and how mixed and strong emotions can be between the people involved.

My advice is:

Remove yourself as far as possible from triggers (one of mine is my sister driving with my mother in the car )
DO NOT return any obvious sallies / provocative statements. Leave the room, or headphones in if you can't.
When you are tempted - and you will be sorely tempted - scream into a pillow.

My twin and I had a very similar relationship when we were younger, OP. It took us both getting partners who could point out to us that our behaviour to each other was not acceptable before we realised it wasn't normal! So you're doing better than we did, since you have identified the problem.
For us, living 200 miles away helps. If we were living in the same house we might well still have times where we behaved horribly to each other. As it is, she's my best friend. We go on holiday together, chat all day long, etc. On occasion when we are together we bicker. It's as though we don't remember each other is a proper person who deserves respect. We'll forgive each other anything,and sometimes we can forget that doesn't give us licence to do whatever we like to each other.
Anyway suggestion would be mindfulness practice to help you notice when you're going too far, but you'll need to agree you're both going to do it and that you both want to improve your relationship. Good luck! (sorry if garbled. In my bed on my phone with a headache!)

Move out. Get some space between you. I bet things will calm down and you will be friends in a bit of time again.

I'm a twin and can understand how well you know each other and how to wind each other up as me and my sister used to do this as teenagers. I think you need to work on your responses to when she's annoying you but also change how you aggravate her too which you can probably do without even thinking about it.

Me and Dtwin are older now and extremely close as we live miles from each other we speak every other day on the phone.

so, you wanted coping strategies....well, I decided I wasn't wasting my life fighting with people and began to see my sister as a friend, I kind of reframed our relationship, ie treating sibling like a friend with the usual boundaries, expectations and consideration. You need to break it first. just do it, not cloying, not fake just nice neutral and normal. Let things slide when you have to.

my other bit of advice would be to get more space and get out more. you're also adjusting to living en famille once more and that's never easy......people slide back into their old roles so easily, which reinforces older, destructive habits.

Thanks all, some really great advice here! I will definitely start trying some of the tips and tactics you have mentioned. Might also quietly try some counselling for myself to see if that works too, thanks so much all

Something that doesn't really help is that my parents work from home and my dsis and I have been doing home-based work too. This is obviously a point of friction as we're all running into each other every day and don't have much of a chance to build up separate new lives outside the house. We both have external friendship groups but many have moved elsewhere. I think I will focus on getting some outside hobbies too to ease things and make new friends etc etc

I hope this isn't all going on while your parents are trying to work.

Here's some advice: when your sister, or anyone, says something to you that you find vaguely provocative or confrontational, SHUT THE FUCK UP and listen to what they say. Think about it. Don't immediately snap back. Consider whether a dignified silence is more appropriate than a reply.

If you respond to people in person the same way you have responded to people on this thread - prickly, defensive and unable to accept answers that aren't framed exactly how you would prefer - it's no wonder your low-level bitching escalates into cruel and unpleasant behaviour.

When you try to change an engrained behaviour it will feel wrong, even though you know rationally you are doing the right thing. It may feel difficult and uncomfortable at first, but stick with it. If she says something mean don't react as you normally would, say you know, you may be right. If you catch yourself saying something nasty to her, apologise right away. It will be hard at first, you will think why should I apologise. But just think of the good relationship you would like to have and keep trying.