would you be pissed off/ fed up with this at work?

[totallyfedup2015]

So today I got 'ticked off' by my manager for being late several times recently. Not quite a formal disciplinary but a clear 'you must be in at 9am without fail' conversation

My nominal hours are 9-5. I've been in after 9 a few times recently, though none later than 09.15.

I work lunch almost every day, because I can have up to 6 hours of meetings a day which inevitably straddle lunchtime. I also stay after 5 at least once a week or more. And do monthly trips to other offices which involve me setting off before 6am, either being away overnight and getting home at 7pm next day, or coming back the same day and getting home at 10pm. I don't object to any of that but I thought there might be a little give and take...apparently not.

I'm also not a junior, I've got 20 years professional qualifications (more than anyone in my office including my manager) and feel rather resentful at getting the same level of chat I used to give office juniors who were in at 0905 and out the door at 1655!

AIBU or would this piss you off too?

My manager is obsessed with presenteeism, and is in the office way before 8am every day. There are only 6 of us in a team managed by this person. Others have been late on occasion. I don't know how often because we don't sit together in the office and because I really don't care what time other people get in! My manager has no responsibility for any of the other more junior people in our office outside of our team.

For me, I have family responsibilities which mean I can't leave earlier than I currently do - between 7.45 and 8 every day. If I leave at 7.45, I can arrive any time between 8.35 and 9.15, and if I leave at 8, anytime between 8.50 and 9.15 - I get a bus and a train to work, some days the bus doesn't turn up/turns up late/gets stuck in traffic. Some days the train also doesn't turn up, or is late. if I miss the 'early' train, and the next train is late or cancelled, I can't get in til after 9. It's sods law all of this has happened several times recently due to road works/road closures/the train service being generally useless.

I earn only just over £50k a year - I think you might lose sympathy with that statement.

What a horrible thing to say Ragwort. The OP is making the point that with 20 years' plus experience, she's not earning millions. Hence why should she be available at all times?

FWIW, I think your manager has an agenda, OP. Do you think he feels threatened by you and your expertise? Seems a very odd thing to pick up on after everything else you've said about your knowledge and experience. I'd start a paper trail/keep records of the meeting, even if it's only a follow up email to confirm what was said, in case anything else comes of this. Good luck.

It would piss me off. They can't expect you to be flexible, work through lunch and late and moan when you effectively take back your time. I'd do time sheets OP and point out that rather then later, you are working over your hours and taking time back.

Actually, that's another thing. Because we regularly work with the US, they organise meetings for when they get in, which is OUR lunchtime. I've now blocked out lunchtimes in my diary to try and prevent this but you still get the odd person who ignores it and books something in anyway.

I think I would seriously be looking for anther job if my manager said that to me. It would piss me off so much that I would be utterly demotivated.

But my manager wouldn't say that because he's not an arse and appreciates that good working relationships require give and take (and the company is usually the one doing the taking!).

I have never had any time off in lieu. It doesn't exist in our organisation!

Junior staff get paid overtime (time and a half, double time even), I don't. Any medical appts I have to take in annual leave (because it's easier than negotiating over making up time).

I have access to enable me to work from home but I'm only allowed to do it exceptionally, for instance if I'd sprained my ankle so couldn't get in to the office easily.

Petty presenteeism at its worst. Well, work to rule from now on, OP.

I work work to rule after that. With alarms going on my watch at lunch hour time and 5pm.

Then if you can't do time in lieu, do the timesheets to show how much you are working over when you have to and the rest of the time be in for 9, take the expected lunch or have it after the arranged meeting and leave at 5pm.

People are far more likely to notice those who come in "late" but no one cares when you leave - generally because they're already fucked off home.
This would piss me off OP. I'm in a similar position to you and come to work at times ranging between 8-9.30am, I leave between 4.30-9pm and I often do work in the evenings (am about to do another hour or so in a minute). Fair enough if not being there directly impacts on others but if not then it's just petty.

DEFINITELY NOT being unreasonable. You need to clarify if there can be give on the arrival time because you are giving extra in so many way. If there is no give on arrival time I would not stay late or work through lunch. This is just normal working practise now in many places, more flexibility and I am pretty sure it results in more productivity.

I hate all this obsession with time keeping because it only serves those who are in on time, regardless of whether they stay late, work through lunch or even do a good job!

But if the office requires it then I would have a serious chat with them because this sounds like there used to be flexibility and now there is not (unless you only stared being late recently). Is the manager new? If they are less well qualified than you why not go for promotion and out of their orbit!

In my office we all start at different times and end at different times, we work different days and work from home. No one knows when anyone is meant to start and no one cares. We all give a lot I think because we like the flexibility. This would not work in a customer-facing, shop, hospital or school etc, of course, but if the work lends itself to this then why not. (As you can see I am very anti-time-keeping!!)

People are far more likely to notice those who come in "late" but no one cares when you leave - generally because they're already fucked off home
See that really pisses me off. I start work at 7.30 to take early morning phone calls, organise the day etc. So when everyone else gets in, it's all organised and they can crack on with the day. So I get really angry when I get to go home and all I hear is 'oh it's alright for some', 'wish I could leave this early'
The fact that they're still in bed when I start work appears to count for nothing. I never get away at the time I should, so I wish they'd just shut the fuck up really.

That's it lorelai

But yes, what I was getting at is as many other posters have said, it works both way. I used to regularly work late in order to finish work, or work through lunch or whatever. So if I came in at ten past 9, so what? Especially since I would come in early on other days (8.30) to facilitate early meetings etc. If I'd been told you have to be in at 9 that would have been the end of all that.

Also agree with Punk it's really annoying when people comment on
other people's hours like that!

Have you spoken to your boss about your need for flexibility, write a months working hours down to show how much they are gaining by allowing you a little room in the mornings?

I recently had this situation but the other way round. Team member has the flexibility to arrive for work an hour before her start time, she loves this because she gets lots done before the phones start ringing and colleagues arrive for the day.

In return she asked if she could leave an hour earlier so she has more time with her Dc after school. I snapped the offer up! She is a happy bunny with the new flexibility and I'm happy because she is happy.

She could have continued arriving early and leaving on her official time and it could have lead to resentment, you don't get if you don't ask.

I think it depends on the workplace. DH always gets in very early and leaves in time so is therefore not seen to ever stay late. You can't fucking win.

Is it just this one manager? If so, I'd be making discreet enquiries about shifting teams, if that's practical.

Unfortunately, I think if your hours are meant to start at 9, then you should be there for 9......or to be honest a little before, for things like (if relevant to your job) switching on your computer, getting a drink, getting settled at your desk) Frustrating as it is when you work over lunch and stay late (and this is 100% in your favour, and to be applauded and appreciated by your management) on the other end of the scale they're quite entitled to comment that you're arriving late. The only exception to this would be if you worked flexi time and could come and go a you pleased as long as you worked the overall hours.
Is there a specific reason why you've been late (for example childcare issues etc?) I was just thinking, if it's something that you're going to keep struggling with, might your manager be open to you explaining the problem, and asking whether you could work (for example) 9:15 to 5:15? That way you're providing a solution to the problem yourself, and it would put an end to you potentially being late again. I've had people work for me in similar situations and we were almost always able to come to an arrangement.
If you're late it will invariably cause problems for your colleagues covering in your absence (it may only be fifteen minutes or so, but if someone has to answer additional phone calls/needs advice on a part of your work I can see it would begin to cause aggravation if it became a regular thing.......

well it's your start time so not really unseasonable for your manager to expect you to be there at that time.

Perhaps it a politeness thing, do you ever apologise for being late or even drop an email offering to make up the hours (which sounds like your doing anyway)

I asked to change my start time to 9.15 as that was also the latest time I would get in by if my bus was late etc. This way when I was earlier it was fine and I could then leave,according to the time I started. So 9-5 or 9.15-5.15.

Plus that way you end up being early more than you are late.

If they can't agree to that based on your family commitments and transport etc then they are tossers tbh.

There's not really any possibility of moving teams - we are quite separate from the rest of the business, and no one else does the same work as me - so there's no burden on colleagues if I'm 5-10 mins late. Firstly because I am 5-10 mins late and no-one ever comes to ask me anything first thing (most people are logging themselves on, checking emails, planning their day etc) plus I don't have a phone as such - I have one to make outgoing calls but not a designated number, so people either call me on my mobile (which they can do anytime) or email me and ask me to call them. Again the work I do isn't business critical, there is never anything so urgent that anyone has to speak to me immediately, and can't wait 5-10 mins (and frankly if it was that urgent they'd email me anyway).

I think I'm done with it tbh. I've wanted to leave for a while but put up with a below par salary because I thought at least I wasn't being micromanaged to distraction (as I have been in previous roles which is tedious in the extreme - especially when the person managing you doesn't actually understand your role!) but this has the potential to be the start of a slippery slope. Annoyingly there doesn't seem to be much out there work wise, but at least I can dust off the CV and start looking.

Have you explained all of this to your boss?

I reminded manager of all the extra work I do.

I also explained, not that I feel I should have to justify myself, the reasons for each occasion of lateness. I said I couldn't offer a guarantee I would always be in before 9, because I can't leThave earlier than 7.45 and whilst on a good day I'm in just after 8.30, the uncertainties of public transport mean I can't say I'll always be there at that time.

The only response was I really needed to be in before 9.

Totally, if you're in on time mostly, I think they're being crazy. Good luck, you'll need to work to rule while job hunting

Purple, super autocorrect, could be a whole new board, "am I being unseasonable?"