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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

would you be pissed off/ fed up with this at work?

141 replies

totallyfedup2015 · 05/10/2015 17:58

So today I got 'ticked off' by my manager for being late several times recently. Not quite a formal disciplinary but a clear 'you must be in at 9am without fail' conversation

My nominal hours are 9-5. I've been in after 9 a few times recently, though none later than 09.15.

I work lunch almost every day, because I can have up to 6 hours of meetings a day which inevitably straddle lunchtime. I also stay after 5 at least once a week or more. And do monthly trips to other offices which involve me setting off before 6am, either being away overnight and getting home at 7pm next day, or coming back the same day and getting home at 10pm. I don't object to any of that but I thought there might be a little give and take...apparently not.

I'm also not a junior, I've got 20 years professional qualifications (more than anyone in my office including my manager) and feel rather resentful at getting the same level of chat I used to give office juniors who were in at 0905 and out the door at 1655!

AIBU or would this piss you off too?

OP posts:
fredfredgeorgejnrsnr · 05/10/2015 20:03

No Toughasoldboots, most companies without opening hours have a concept of "core hours" - those are the hours which meetings are organised in and you're generally expected to be available - say 10am to 4pm. Outside that, you're expected to do your job, the number of hours worked isn't particularly important, so long as you're performing at the level expected for what you're paid.

Time in the office is a poor metric for measuring staff productivity, and is generally harmful both on the non-work life of your employees, who might then decide to leave, or simply be more distracted and annoyed when in work.

Some people of course are horrified that others don't do the same hours as them, and that can need some care to manage, but rarely are the people who are annoyed about it also the people who are the most productive.

definiteissues · 05/10/2015 20:07

But you were late.
It is a job. You can't just show up whenever you feel like it and think that is OK.
You choose to do extra hours. Extra hours you choose to do does not mean that you get to decide what time you come in.
If you ask first then no problem, but just turning up late isn't on

Toughasoldboots · 05/10/2015 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
totallyfedup2015 · 05/10/2015 20:21

But why can't I turn up a few mins late?

I'm not rolling in at 10am every day, or later. I've never been later than 9.15.

I certainly don't think at my level I should have to ask permission like a kid. What on earth is the point of having attained 20 years experience?

I rarely leave on the dot of 5. I work late as in past 5.30 once a week. I know people who work late and travel a lot more than me, but they are on 6 figure salaries. I earn only just over £50k a year. Not a pittance I know, but not much given my experience and qualifications.

As for my performance at work, I had a review in August which was unequivocally glowing. Indeed I was praised for my can do attitude. Shame that memories are so short.

OP posts:
fulldutypaid · 05/10/2015 20:23

Because you haven't had that conversation with your manager.

Ragwort · 05/10/2015 20:25

I earn only just over £50k a year - I think you might lose sympathy with that statement.

I regularly work 2-3 hours extra, unpaid a day - I earn £7 per hour and yes, have years of experience as well. Sad

lorelei9 · 05/10/2015 20:27

Toughasoldboots " I was expressing surprise that it seems abnormal to work longer than contracted hours."

Sadly a lot of employers have their staff doing jobs that can't be done in the contracted hours, so yes, it may well be "normal" but it certainly isn't a good thing. I have worked long hours in the past but now if it's going to take me 15 minutes longer to do something, I will alert my manager and get that time back somewhere.

we need to move back to a culture where it is abnormal. I speak as someone on a low-average wage btw.

lifesalongsong · 05/10/2015 20:31

I totally understand how annoying it is for you to be pulled up on this but I can also see from the employers point of view they want everyone who starts at 9 to be there at 9 otherwise people will just start taking the piss and that becomes impossible to manage.

Someone upthread suggested asking if your start time could be moved, that sounds like the perfect solution.

DaimYou · 05/10/2015 20:33

"But why can't I turn up a few mins late? "

The short answer is because your boss wants you there on time.

As others have said, being even a few minutes late is disruptive, disrespectful and just looks bad. It's up to you if 15 mins extra in bed is worth undoing all the good work of your commitment through the rest of the day.

bialystockandbloom · 05/10/2015 20:35

Get the impression that the OP isn't in this kind of role so not totally relevant, but - I think it also does depend on the industry though. I've always been in media/comms where set office hours really don't apply. But I can see that if e.g. you're a GP or office receptionist or something where things really are affected by you not being on time (i.e. patients waiting / phones not being manned) being regularly late would be a problem.

Only1scoop · 05/10/2015 20:37

It's obviously being noticed....start leaving at 5 though and having a lunch. Just don't be late and have to go through the 'ticking off' cringe.

Dixiechickonhols · 05/10/2015 20:38

I'd work your set hours from now on.Treat it as though he has told you to work 9-5, full lunch and no more.

I really dislike this. I creates such bad feeling. It doesn't work with professionals expected to work above and beyond set hours. Swings and roundabouts it isn't.

Rather than just work to rule a more professional approach would be to email your manager to set up a meeting to clarify matters following your conversation

  • what does he want you to do with meetings scheduled for lunch - decline or leave at 12. Who should you ask to attend in your absence?
-Ditto meetings scheduled to end after 5pm -What arrangements are there for pay/TOIL for extra hours worked. If not you will be at your desk for 9am then set off to other office. -Are you getting enough rest period on days you are home late and due to be on shift at 9am
Gwenhwyfar · 05/10/2015 20:40

"I regularly work 2-3 hours extra, unpaid a day - I earn £7 per hour"

You are silly if you work extra hours for free in such a low-paid job. It means that your real hourly wage is below the minimum wage. You could easily find a job where that isn't expected for the same pay.

tunnockt3acake · 05/10/2015 20:41

Your boss may think that it reflects badly on him or her as a manager

I would leave a bit earlier to get into work on time

I would take a short lunch break

I would leave on time

EachandEveryone · 05/10/2015 20:42

If your boss wants you in for 9am like the rest of the team then that's what they want so just do it.

Gwenhwyfar · 05/10/2015 20:42

"As others have said, being even a few minutes late is disruptive, disrespectful and just looks bad."

No, it's not. How can it look bad to arrive at ten past nine if you regularly work late? The OP has said that she doesn't work with clients so I don't see what the problem is.

Mistigri · 05/10/2015 20:46

It would piss me off (like you, 20 years plus professional experience).

I take the attitude that at my level, I am paid for my expertise and my results, not the hours I work. If my boss wanted me to play the clock-watching game, then I would play it for sure, but it would cut both ways.

I guess it depends on whether you are in a position of strength or not (I would be expensive to replace and I don't think my boss would dare).

DaimYou · 05/10/2015 20:48

It looks bad because you were supposed to be there at 9am. No-one cares or knows how late you work. If you want to impress with extra hours you need to be first in, not last out. (although the whole thing is ridiculous)

amarmai · 05/10/2015 20:49

I thought it was par for the course that if you were expected to put in your own time travelling for work , or in meetings over lunch or after hours that you got some time in lieu to make up for that. Surely it's not just for men?

fulldutypaid · 05/10/2015 20:49

OP I do get what you're saying but stop being a martyr in one respect and bucking a 9am start thinking its allowed. Speak to your boss and tell her what you do etc. which is a separate issue in my mind.

ceres · 05/10/2015 20:51

Fulldutypaid - by your logic op should take a lunch break and leave at 5pm.

My hours are technically 9 to 5 but the reality is very different. I have no issue being flexible however I do expect flexibility in return. Fortunately my employer has enough sense to see they get a far better deal than I do and nobody bats an eyelid when I roll in sometime between 9 and half past.

Op i would be beyond pissed off.

And the poster who said it is a 'choice' to work extra hours - are you serious?! It's certainly not my choice to work through lunch and work late, it is sometimes necessary in my job however it is NOT in my contract that this is a requirement therefore it is entirely down to goodwill.

Mistigri · 05/10/2015 20:55

And, I do agree with lorelei. I'm lucky that my employer is generally reasonable with regards to hours/expectations, and I work hard to avoid "mission creep" in this respect.

I think bosses (and clients) generally respect professionals who are firm about work-life boundaries, and who insist on being paid for the work they do (and not doing work they are not paid for) - but you do need to be assertive about it, and balance it with competence and professionalism.

SouthWestmom · 05/10/2015 20:55

I think it depends on your workplace. We don't expect anyone to miss lunch or work late and actively discourage it. So turning up a few minutes late is irritating and working extra makes us wonder why.

MotherOfFlagons · 05/10/2015 20:55

OP, I had the same issue and it sounds like I'm in a not dissimilar position to you. Never more than 15 mins after 'official' start time, worked through lunch, regularly stayed late, always went the extra mile. I get through more work and am better organised than the rest of the team (not me blowing my own trumpet, that's what I've been repeatedly told by management). Got pulled up on it and told I have to ask if I even need to leave 10 minutes early.

It's not that I expect to slack off when I feel like it, it's just that having built a series of successful and effective processes from nothing, I thought I might be allowed to manage my own time and not have someone looking over my shoulder tapping their watch and pointing out that I was two minutes late. Or interrogating me if I need to work from home and assigning me extra work if I have to leave early for a doctor's appointment to make up for their perception that I am doing 'less' work.

My response was 'fuck 'em'. I don't work late any more, I don't look at emails at the weekend or on holiday and I do my job but I'm not going to stress myself out over it any more. I love my actual job, but I fucking hate the culture around it.

PegsPigs · 05/10/2015 20:56

Give the person who gave you a ticking off 2 choices

  1. Allow you to work flexibly such that you do the hours necessary including overnight stays and back to back meetings over your lunch hour in return for starting work before 9.30 but at a time which suits you.

  2. You turn up at 8.55am every morning ready at your desk to work at 9am but you take a full lunch hour every day, decline meetings over your lunch hour, decline meetings away from the office which require late finishes or overnight stays and pack up your things everyday at 5pm.

For a small bit of common sense which should be afforded to senior professionals they'll see they're being silly. I hate the argument that it's about being a role model for junior staff. Just because you're in the office doesn't mean you're working (tea round, staff room, breakout area, personal emails) and just because you're not in the office doesn't mean you're not working.