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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

would you be pissed off/ fed up with this at work?

141 replies

totallyfedup2015 · 05/10/2015 17:58

So today I got 'ticked off' by my manager for being late several times recently. Not quite a formal disciplinary but a clear 'you must be in at 9am without fail' conversation

My nominal hours are 9-5. I've been in after 9 a few times recently, though none later than 09.15.

I work lunch almost every day, because I can have up to 6 hours of meetings a day which inevitably straddle lunchtime. I also stay after 5 at least once a week or more. And do monthly trips to other offices which involve me setting off before 6am, either being away overnight and getting home at 7pm next day, or coming back the same day and getting home at 10pm. I don't object to any of that but I thought there might be a little give and take...apparently not.

I'm also not a junior, I've got 20 years professional qualifications (more than anyone in my office including my manager) and feel rather resentful at getting the same level of chat I used to give office juniors who were in at 0905 and out the door at 1655!

AIBU or would this piss you off too?

OP posts:
Karoleann · 05/10/2015 18:26

I'd be more pissed off with you often being late, its sloppy and reflects badly on your commitment to the job. I'm with your boss on this one.

Berylpeep · 05/10/2015 18:26

Its always the way.

They notice if you are late, but not that you work unpaid overtime.

Only solution is to work 9-5 and have your scheduled lunch break.

lorelei9 · 05/10/2015 18:28

I understand how you feel

here's my take on it

it's fine for the boss to take the "Presenteeism" view and insist you are in, at your desk, working, by 9. (I say that because of a previous boss who was adamant that in by 9 meant all those things, not switching the PC on).

However, I would also say it's fine that you stick to the letter of your contractual working hours because of that. If meetings go on past five, you leave - unless there's a time off in lieu arrangement or a reasonable expectation of staying late outlined in your contract.

I'm not senior. I currently work in a place where they care about the work being done to a high standard and don't watch the clock for the odd five minutes. But in a previous place, where I also worked late frequently and often missed my lunch hour, I started a work-related qualification and asked if I could leave 10 minutes early one night a week to get there.

they said "no - you have to come in ten minutes early and make up the time that way". So I did that, but after that I made a point of taking my lunch break. They can't have it both ways. If they give you no flexibility, that's what they get in return.

def study your contract carefully before you start this though. I have had many jobs and unless told otherwise, I always assume the start time is the "at your desk, working" time, not hanging up coat or washing hands etc.

LordPeterWimsey · 05/10/2015 18:28

fiorentina, it's pretty key to this, actually - employers expect a lot in the way of flexibility from staff, especially professional staff. I'm available by email in the evenings, at weekends, and sometimes when I'm on leave, and I work 45-50 hours a week on a contract that says 35 hours. If they can't manage enough flexibility in return to accommodate my being late in a couple of times a week, then I'm going to stand on the terms and conditions of my contract. Basic reciprocity. But, as I say, this wouldn't happen to me, because my boss isn't an arse. (People in our place have a variety of working patterns, incidentally, so I wouldn't be "leading by example" if I were in at 9 - three people in the team start at 8.)

lorelei9 · 05/10/2015 18:29

PS I also don't think seniority matters - either everyone has to start on time or not.

LordPeterWimsey · 05/10/2015 18:29

Cross-posted, lorelei9: I think we're making exactly the same point.

bialystockandbloom · 05/10/2015 18:29

If I knew I wasn't actually taking the piss generally at work (under-performing, lazy, always leaving early/on the dot of 5pm etc) it would piss me off too. Being in on the dot of your start time, or earlier, is not a sign of a productive worker or being fabulous at your job. Especially if you're senior, AND you do as you said and rarely take full lunch or leave on the dot of 5pm. Hate the culture of 'presenteeism'.

Also doesn't take into account things like late/delayed trains etc.

OneHandFlapping · 05/10/2015 18:31

So did you say what you said in your OP? What was her response?
If not, why not - I would have argued my case.

SwedishEdith · 05/10/2015 18:33

Does anyone actually need to be in at 9 or is that just the way it's always been?

Me624 · 05/10/2015 18:33

I think professional staff should be treated like adults. If someone clearly isn't pulling their weight then yes pull them up on timekeeping but a person who regularly works through lunch and past their finish time should have the leeway to be 10 or 15 minutes later in where they do not have an early meeting.

I am a lawyer and cannot remember the last time I worked my contracted hours, possibly never. About once a week I take a proper lunch break where some colleagues and I will go to the pub. We are usually gone about 1hr15 so slightly over our "official" 1hr lunch break. If anyone said anything to me about that I would be aghast given the hours I put in.

Dumdedumdedum · 05/10/2015 18:35

You are not being in the least unreasonable, OP. If your manager doesn't understand/appreciate that you are looking to get good results, rather than watching the clock, there is something wrong with their system, not with you. Petty though it certainly is, if I were you, I would clock-watch all the way and work strictly 9 to 5, taking your hour's lunch break daily. Though if meetings normally last 5 or 6 hours, I can see you would feel it highly unprofessional of you to stop them so you can work to rule..
I'm actually feeling really pissed off on your behalf at the stupidity which doesn't recognise that the work getting done well is what is important, not, as, is mentioned above, "presenteeism" which means nothing if you are present strictly from 9 till 5 but reading the paper or on the net all day and accomplishing little or nothing during that time.

m0therofdragons · 05/10/2015 18:36

The bums on seats types annoy me. I've always worked in places like that so now I'm in a different job where turning up 10 minutes late means you just work a bit later and no one checks as we're all adults so are trusted. I do get in on time because to be honest it's what I'm used to and some roles of course you have to be in on time but when it doesn't affect anyone and working over time is expected then they need to be flexible both ways. Having said that you can't choose the rules and some managers are dicks.

NuggetofPurestGreen · 05/10/2015 18:50

My old boss tried this on me. My response was 'think carefully before you order me to be in at 9.'

He got the message.

slightlyglitterpaned · 05/10/2015 18:51

If it was a matter of setting an example, any manager with half a brain would explain that, in a "sorry fedup, you know I appreciate the hours you put in and your flexibility, but we're having a bit of trouble with the juniors' punctuality right now so if you could..." i.e. make OP feel appreciated, not like a naughty schoolchild.

Decent managers realise that flexibility goes both ways, and that pissing off professional (expensive to hire) staff is rather stupid.

fredfredgeorgejnrsnr · 05/10/2015 18:52

Me624 If someone isn't pulling their weight, pull them up on not pulling their weight, the time they turn is irrelevant, or may be a pointer to an underlying issue that you as a manager can help with.

flossietoot · 05/10/2015 18:54

I would be raging. What a crappy environment to work in!!

Corygal · 05/10/2015 18:58

This happened to me. I was unimpressed, given I worked forever in unpaid overtime. But the boss wanted redundancies, it turned out.

I am delighted to report I went on to miles better things, whereas the firm and their petty attitudes went bust.

TheStripyGruffalo · 05/10/2015 19:04

Regardless of what you do at lunchtime, you still need to be in on time. I'd be cheesed off but you are the one in the wrong.

SlaggyIsland · 05/10/2015 19:39

The presenteeism culture is ridiculous. I also worked in a job where I put in all hours, worked through lunch etc. In return I expected to be able to be late on the odd occasion without question, or to be able to take a longer lunch when I did actually take more than ten minutes to grab a sandwich from the canteen.
My work results spoke for themselves. And I'm an adult and able to manage my time and workload.

lorelei9 · 05/10/2015 19:41

Nugget "My old boss tried this on me. My response was 'think carefully before you order me to be in at 9.' "

why, what happens? Is it like Manny in Black Books when the temperature goes over 85?

Toughasoldboots · 05/10/2015 19:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fulldutypaid · 05/10/2015 19:48

The start of the day is the crux here. You can't just turn up late because you worked on and did ex amount of other hours. That is a totally separate issue and one that you should take up with your employers. If you feel exploited then you need to speak up about it, not turn up whenever you please.

MustBeThursday · 05/10/2015 19:50

Depends on the job really. I had one job where I had fixed hours and had to be in and logged on by my start time, though that was mainly to do with phone cover, so if I was late I had to inform them so they could make sure enough people were covering phones.

I've also worked in a flexi time office - so come in between 8 and 10, lunch taken between 12 and 2, and leave between 4 and 6. We just had to hand in a log of our hours 4-weekly (arrival, lunch start, lunch end and leaving) - with time in lieu carried to next month for hours over and time owing for hours under.

Maybe you should keep a log of your hours to show management should they pull you up again, or you want to request flexible working - especially if meetings require you to stay late regularly.

SourceofInformation · 05/10/2015 19:50

I think there can and should be a degree of flexibility because of the extra hours you do, but this would usually be by arrangement.

So for example, if I have a school assembly to watch, I wouldn't expect to be challenged about coming in a couple of hours late but I would "ask" first. If I needed to leave early to take my Grandad to a hospital apt, I'd expect to do that too.

However, being late is being late, is disrespectful and gives a bad impression, no matter how many hours you make up. I would be very annoyed by a colleague or subordinate who was regularly 15 mins late, although I am very flexible when asked for half days or late starts by staff who generally give above and beyond. I would also consider moving their official start time, if that was necessary for them to be in on time, but I would absolutely expect the to be in on time, unless there was a specific circumstance preventing it and we had agreed that in advance.

MinecraftWonder · 05/10/2015 19:57

I think YABU.

Turning up up to 15 minutes late is noticible. If the manager let it slide completely, what would stop everyone doing it?

From the manager's pov it's probably more about keeping up appearances for the masses and to meet their own job requirements (ie keeping the staff in line) than them actually being bothered you're late iyswim? I wouldn't take it personally.