To think MH stigma is embedded in our language

[AliceScarlett]

I use the word "crazy" too much. I wouldn't call anyone else crazy, but I do use it when describing weird behaviour.

I notice words like "unhinged", " psycho", "schizo" being used for people who are either ill or eccentric and it all bothers me. I'm bothered.

When describing or labeling someone I don't want to say "they sound like they have MH issues" because I don't know if they do and its pathologising. But I don't want to say "they sound crazy" because I think thats offensive.

I've started to say "thats absurd" which feels alright. Maybe I should stop labeling people all together and that's the answer. (I'm talking about doing it in my head or with DH, i don't go around calling people names).

Really don't know.

Disclaimer: Yes I care about being PC, yes I think it's important.

This post is a bit scrambled, I'm tired.

'does it not just put mental health on a spectrum and normalise it'

It does, but it's doing it in a way that's at the expense of/shits on people with MH probs, making them out to be 'other' and 'not normal'.

Now I think about it, the majority of people I know who don't have any MH probs are the ones who behave in the most bizarre, anti social ways you can think of, so I don't know who's making up the catagories of normal/not normal!

The ones judging on what's not normal are probably the ones who like to feel superior at the expense of others, 'well I can't be that bad because at least I'm not a nutter/loon etc'.

I don't like being labelled because I've found it isolates and excludes me from the general pop more than I already am.

hmmm, ok. To me, if something is on a spectrum it makes it more normal, not othering. It's also less of a label if we're applying to behaviour of 'normal' individuals and not just to an illness.

I see what you mean about feeling superior at the expense of others. But I think that probably equally applies to people with MH problems as not. I have friends who will never (probably, anyway) be able to live a normal life or hold down a job and friends who have spent the majority of their adult lives in hospital settings. And yeah, I suppose it does make me think 'I'm pretty normal really, at least I'm not like that'. I find it comforting (for me, not for them, obviously!) But maybe that's just me being a horrible person!!

It's not you being horrible manic! I do it too tbh but I try to keep it in my head and not make other people feel my insecurities shit.

It's a similar thing to murders looking down on nonces, there's always someone around who's worse off than you and it's difficult not to feel a bit of relief alongside any compassion you feel for them.

I can be relatively 'normal' for short periods of time when I'm with other people, but the fact that I can't keep it up just underlines that I shouldn't be around anyone else because I'm a creep weirdo with bizarre behaviour and it's clear by the way that nutter etc is used that other people can't accept that (not that anything I do is spiteful or hurtful).

You're not a creep. I hope you have some people who accept you as you are.

Sorry, the creep bit was because I wrote weirdo and it reminded me of a radiohead song

Like MummySparkle was saying about labeling her personality as a disorder, I've found it easier not to fight against the weirdo bit of who I am, I've accepted that I'm 'not normal' and have to deal with it and people's responses to it as best I can, otherwise I may as well just be punching myself repeatedly in the face Fight Club style

You're very lovely saying I'm not though anyway

Hmm, this is a tricky one. I suffer with severe anxiety and am currently being diagnosed with ocd. I have to describe how I'm feeling on a day to day basis with regards to whether or not I'll be able to leave the house. So for example "I'm feeling a bit zippy" if I can't concentrate, my brain is working at 100 miles an hour, I can't sit still. Or "I'm not functioning well today" if I've woken up and everything is in slow motion. I battled against being formally diagnosed for years, im still finding it really stressful.

I agree with agent I can be out and about and 'normal' with other people, but I can only currently keep it up for short periods before I need to retreat. It's horrible to have to live with, my brain and my body feel like separate entities to my actual self! I am a capable, intelligent, hard working, articulate woman...but then it can take me up to an hour to actually exit my home, I can't do it unaccompanied and I can, at best, manage about an hour and a half in public before I feel like I can't breathe.

Normalising mental health issues and removing the stigma is so important, and I think society has a way to go before mh issues are widely accepted, and language and how we use it is important. I'm not articulating very well at the moment ironic ha-ha! I don't know what I'm trying to say!

haha, very true. Well, here's to not being normal then, I guess!

You've articulated it brilliantly Starky. I have OCD/associated anxiety bollocks that comes with it and you've got the odd situation of knowing you're (what's described as) normal/not normal at the same time spot on. The way it's talked about is better than it has been in the past, which was either not at all or in hushed tones, so it's not all bad.

I'll drink to that manic

Has anyone ever taken offense when a song by Madness is played?

Partialderivative, accidently missed the point of the thread or just scrabbling around to find a way to prove the OP wrong?

Yeah, of course, it's not OK for me to pull anyone up about calling people nutters because I heard I Like Driving In My Car in the 1990s and I didn't complain about it

Part of the problem is, when people say a person has MH issues, it's to explain frustrating or upsetting behavior. You never see someone looking at an intelligent or well behaved child and go "Oh, he might be autistic".

It's always "The kid throwing a tantrum might be autistic" or "The person who is making your life hell must be a narcissist". It's used as an excuse for bad behavior, and unless you have a disorder it's hard to understand that it is possible for someone have X and still be a jerk because they're choosing to be. So it's used as an excuse for people to give that person a pass and continue tolerating bad behavior from friends, partners, or family.

There's never any talk about well adjusted people coping with MH problem, so you only see the negative side of it.

But that said, when someone refers to a person as a loon, psycho, nutcase, or anything else like that... it's a different implication than "I think you have a serious problem". It's "your behavior is completely irrational and I don't like it because it defies all social norms". It's not really the same thing.

To be fair, the diagnostic criteria are usually written in terms of deficits and impairments, not their strengths. For example, autism is defined by impairments in communication and social interaction. If you only had the strengths associated with a particular disorder, you wouldn't be diagnosable with it.

Likewise, if you're 'well adjusted' you probably don't meet the diagnostic criteria. When I broached the subject of AS with my doctor, he initially dismissed me because I was 'coping'. I would imagine many MH disorders are the same, it's not until the symptoms are negatively impacting on your life that you meet the threshold for diagnosis.

YY to 'coping' - I was sent home from an emergency psych appointment my GP had arranged for me with no offer of help because I'd got dressed and was able to speak in sentences. Apparently this means you can't be suicidal. (I'm OK now, I was able to afford private therapy. God help those who can't.)

Perhaps the situation is akin to the reclaiming of words like 'queer' - if you have a MH issue, is anyone going to tell you not to say 'I'm feeling a bit psycho today' but if I said 'god, you're such a psycho' it would be wrong.

It is I agree and I'm also guilty of it. MH problems have ruined my childhood. My df has severe clinical depression, been sectioned and way to much to get into here. My dm also had her own issues which she's passed down to me.

I say bonkers, mad, crazy, insane and mental. I shouldn't really but it's there in my language. If it was racist or disablist we wouldn't say it but because it's not it's acceptable language in society.

I agree but I don't know how it could change. We use words like crazy to describe something crazy that happened. What other words could we use instead.

OP - I so agree - and I think it also ties in to the enduring stigma in relation to mental health (and it also being the poor sister of NHS funding and not exciting the compassion of, say, cancer and children's health... - but that's another whole topic)

People are hyper vigilant about (mis)use of language in, say, a race or sex context, and (I hope) few people would admit to sexism or racism, at least not to it consciously (unconscious bias a whole different thing...). However, mental health, not so much.

I agree but I don't know how it could change. We use words like crazy to describe something crazy that happened. What other words could we use instead.

I think, personally, any language that is used in a derogatory fashion about someone else, is going to be offensive, at least to some degree. The best we can say is that we don't understand the behaviour / we think the behaviour is wrong.

I do not think we are able to really comment upon motives / reasons without actually getting inside someone's else's head. As I have said up thread, I always assume some difficulty in being able to do the right thing, at the time at least. Assuming people people are purposely wrong is wrong IMO because we just cannot know this and also it is a deeply disturbing thought.

Yeah I get really offended about Madness songs, also don't eat nuts, because they're, you know, nutty

I like the idea of reclaiming words.

What about "mad"? for some mad reason I don't mind mad. Freud said we were all mad.

senpai very good point.

SaucyJack I just disageee with the clinical term personality disorder. Much better to be labeled with that rather than just being evil/bad/wrong and denying it's existence though I agree.

I think labels are helpful if they are helpful to the person. For some it is a great relief to have a diagnosis. Fair play.

I don't find the words like crazy, mad, nutty and unhinged to be offensive necessarily.

I don't like schizo. Mainly because it was used as a way to describe someone who had a split personality, which is not what schizophrenia is and the MH community much prefer to use the term 'psychosis disorder' or at least they do in my area. So often when people think of schizophrenia they get a very wrong idea of what the illness actually is.

If the type of words in the OP bothers me really depends on the context in which they are used, if that makes sense. Dh will often say he is feeling a bit crazy today or loony and I will often laugh at call him mental and crazy, however if I insulted him by calling him a mental unhinged prick or something, then yeah, offensive. Context matters.

People claiming they are OCD over something when they mean particular is harmful. I can't keep count of the amount of times someone feels like they can relate to me because they like their rug fringe a certain way. You can be obsessive over things, and even compulsive, but unless you have a diagnosis you don't have OCD and you can't be obsessive compulsive DISORDER over your rug fringe. People assume I wash my hands a lot or keep a spotless house; neither could be further from the truth.

Bipolar is often used as a cool phrase with the young ones now. No, you are not bipolar because you have good moods and bad moods and you aren't manic just because you went on a spending spree.

We all have traits of certain illnesses. We all get sad at times, happy, have mood swings and are a little obsessive over things, but it doesn't mean we have an illness and relating normal moods and behaviour to an illness is damaging I think.

So 'nutty' is ok? How about barking? Or the oh so twee expressions such as 'One sandwich short of a lunch box'

I really am not trying to be obtuse, I'm just tryin to point out the (in my mind) bleeding obvious.

Language is plastic, it always has been, When one person says 'nutter' it can mean something entirely different to another.

I have been told that 'Crazy' is now written as 'Cray' does that now make it a better word

To be fair, the diagnostic criteria are usually written in terms of deficits and impairments, not their strengths. For example, autism is defined by impairments in communication and social interaction. If you only had the strengths associated with a particular disorder, you wouldn't be diagnosable with it.

I think I worded that wrong. I meant more about people speculating on MH problems only when they see negative behavior.

I have adhd, and while I know that means I have deficits in areas, it's not the be all end all of my person hood. It takes a little while of finding out I have it for friends to be like, "Ok, you have adhd, but you're not even trying to pay attention" instead of "Oh, you just can't, so I will speak in short sentences".

Kids with cancer are still show as being lovable kids even with their disease. Autistic kids are only shown through the lens of autism, if that makes sense. It's never "Billy is interested in trains, because trains are neat." it's "Billy is interested in trains because he's autistic". Does that make sense?

I think the problem. With using these words as an insult.is that.it makes them.derogatory my little boy for example has autism and learning difficulties and 8s in a litreal sense retarded in his development but the term retarded has now become an awful word.

Is in a literal*