to think being a paedophile isn't a crime?

[KissingFish]

I see posts from people both on here and other places (Facebook) about how paedophiles should all be killed and confusing the terms paedophile and child molester / child abuser.

They're not the same thing and honestly I don't think being a paedophile is a crime. It is a sexual orientation that nobody chooses to be born with. The same way people are born straight or gay.

Just because someone is a paedophile it doesn't mean they have acted on it and so it doesn't mean they are a child molester.

Surely if we all accepted that paedophilia is a sexual orientation we could help these people before they commit a crime. Before they act on it. I bet there are a LOT more paedophiles out there than we know about. They just don't act on it because they know it's wrong to act on it.

I am of course not saying being sexually attracted to children is a good thing or that it should ever be OK to act on it. No way. Just that I don't think people choose to be a paedophile and it must be pretty scary to realise you are attracted to children. Much the same way it used to be about being gay. And I don't imagine you can just ask friends, family or many people actually for help and advice.

I think in order to deal with a problem you need to understand it first.

I am willing to be convinced otherwise though if anyone has a good argument?

Disclaimer: I am not a paedophile, I just don't believe they are all evil.

from previous telegraph link. Where are all these paedophiles allegedly sitting on their hands and not masturbating to child abuse images?

Child abusers and some paedophiles view child abuse images. Not all paedophiles are child abusers, and not all child abusers are paedophiles. This is the whole point of the OP.

ItsAll, In the ideal world for a paedophile they would indulge in mutual masturbation and possibly oral sex, never penetrative sex. They want a mutually enjoyable and (to their eyes) consenting relationship.

Rubbish. All those actions on a young child can cause serious psychological harm. The adult who does this knows this too. It's a power based thing.

I won't join in with sympathy for the sick fucks. I'm sorry that's how I feel. They have trialled chemical castration with success in america, to me that's the only possible "help" I can think of for them. Otherwise no it shouldn't be normalised, we shouldn't trust them based on their words and no there's not room for an appeal for bloody pedophiles within all that is lacking atm.

and as soon as they google/view those images and videos online, then they are funding the demand for it, and in turn perpetuating the abuse.

They can [seek help]

Not easily. The social stigma is such that a therapist may not feel able to work with them. If they were a family member and went to the GP, would the GP feel obliged to involve SS. And what if they were somehow found out - there life would literally be at risk.

itsallgoingtobefine. What is a terrifying thought is somehow talking about sexual orientation obliges the peadophile to think he or she is in the same group as homosexuals, bisexuals, straight etc, when clearly this kind of depravity is not in the realms of normal sexual behaviour.

Homosexuality is normal in my view, because it is between two consenting adults with or without emotional attachment. Abusing a child will never ever be in the same category because the child can not possibly consent because of their age and vulnerability, because they do not know what they are doing! They have no idea of the pain and suffering they are likely to experience, nor the suffering that comes later.

It is insulting to define child abuse as sexual orientation, it is not, and never will be.

Paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder not a sexual preference choiceThe person with the disorder can not control their urges and may not even understand that society says their feelings are wrong. Some paedophiles can control their urges and some can't or chose not too.

good it'sallgoingtobe they should be found out to protect children as i had to do recently.

and as i said, 6 month waiting list for therapy atm, there are people with depression and pnd who are desperate for that.

The whole point of the thread MySordid is that the people the op is talking about haven't googled images or videos on line. Isn't it?

I have skimmed the thread so apologies if this has already been raised.

You have to think through the implications of recognising it as a sexual orientation. You are not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation (it is a protected characteristic). If you refused a non-active paedophile a job in a school they could potentially sue you for discrimination.

Secondly, there has been a debate about imprisoning people with sociopathic / pyschopathic tendencies who have committed serious crimes. If they are incurable and incapable of rehabilitation and not mentally ill but suffering from a personality disorder what do you do? If you imprison them you are punishing them for an innate inability to empathise and follow social norms but if it is a personality disorder you are not mentally ill either.

If you treat paedophilia as a sexual orientation then you risk it being a protected characteristic. So is it a mental illness? if so, then are you going to jail someone for actions carried out when mentally ill or is it personality disorder.

I don't think it should be compared to sexual orientation, as the impulses and desires are about vulnerable children and not consenting adults.

I do get your point of view though, that people can't help these feelings and they aren't a choice. However actions are a choice and I don't believe a paedophile should be around children.

If you think of how one adult feels lust towards another, how it can be overwhelming and the pull for intimacy is magnetic. Now apply that to an adult having those feelings for a child, thats the only way I can imagine it is.

I do have sympathy as I should imagine there are some who have those desires but know not to exploit children and don't act on them, it must be awful to live with. I've often pondered the cause of it, maybe they haven't grown out of childhood crushes I honestly don't know.

in an ideal world i'm sure it'd be great to be able to offer all this help to everyone, in reality this therapy you talk of costs money and time that the nhs don't have spare.

and as i said, people are born gay, they're not born pedophiles.

throughthickandthin you're going to take their word for that are you?

Rubbish. All those actions on a young child can cause serious psychological harm. The adult who does this knows this too. It's a power based thing.

I agree, but your previous post was about physical harm, which the actions I described would not cause. The adult also may genuinely not realise the psychological impact as they delude themselves into thinking that a relationship is consensual. And of course most (all?) of the psychological harm is not caused by the acts themselves, but by what society thinks of these acts, and by extension the abused. But yes, a paedophile relationship will almost inevitably psychologically damage a child. And ironically, given the stigma around paedophilia in general that child, or child grown adult, may also find it very hard to seek help.

itsallgoingtobefine. A chemical castration would never be seen as a bad thing, but a decision that should be praised and encouraged. Choosing not to harm a child, by choosing this method is just about the kindest thing you can do if you are experiencing these feelings.

Putting their life at risk is a cop out not to get help, it is the children around them that is the risk I would say, and a far more serious one at that.

I agree more could be done to assist people in this position so they can access help though.

I saw a fascinating - though repellent - documentary some years ago about paedophilia.

There are many professionals working within the psychological field with adults who admit to paedophilic tendencies without finding themselves in the justice system. That is, they have committed no crimes but have asked for help in managing their sexual proclivities.

Many of them truly believed that they loved children and thus saw any sexual feelings as an extension of that love, in the same way we do with adults. Many truly believed that a child would want to have sex with them as part of a loving and caring relationship.

The psychologists were having to almost 'reprogramme' their thinking surrounding relationships. It was if they hadn't developed normally in terms of sex and relationships.

I found it mystifying in the same way I don't understand adults who want to have sex with animals, or inanimate objects. And whilst I found them repellent I felt quite sorry for these men in a small way. They also failed in normal adult relationships and struggled with forming appropriate bonds.

I think there is a big difference between men (and women) like this and men and women who abuse children as a control/power issue. Like rape isn't about sex I don't think paedophilia is always about abuse. That doesn't mean I find it acceptable and I think those that commit child abuse should feel the full force of justice as a result of their criminal actions.

People are getting mixed up again. A paedophile is not defined as someone who sexually abuses a child, a paedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to a child. A paedophile would be very unlikely to have a sex with a child as it would hurt them, and as it would destroy their innocence. In the ideal world for a paedophile they would indulge in mutual masturbation and possibly oral sex, never penetrative sex. They want a mutually enjoyable and (to their eyes) consenting relationship. Of course, as with all sexual preferences there will be a small minority who do want to hurt/terrify/have power, but that in general is not a paedophile.

You disgust me, ItsAllGoingToBeFine You are describing sexual abuse as if that was just a walk in the park.

I think for some, we all start being attracted to others in some way in childhood and as we get older, we start to be attracted to older people. I feel that some peoples attractions don't mature correctly.

But there are abusers who are psychopaths and get sexual gratification from dominating, manipulating and hurting others.

here we go again with the sympathy party.. YES they are all the same!! and sick. Sorry, no time for it. I will say it one more time. If they want help they can seek/campaign for chemical castration. Or maybe as you feel so sorry for them you can offer a home counselling course for all the local pedophiles in your area, put a poster up i'm sure it'd be great.