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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think being a paedophile isn't a crime?

999 replies

KissingFish · 30/09/2015 11:04

I see posts from people both on here and other places (Facebook) about how paedophiles should all be killed and confusing the terms paedophile and child molester / child abuser.

They're not the same thing and honestly I don't think being a paedophile is a crime. It is a sexual orientation that nobody chooses to be born with. The same way people are born straight or gay.

Just because someone is a paedophile it doesn't mean they have acted on it and so it doesn't mean they are a child molester.

Surely if we all accepted that paedophilia is a sexual orientation we could help these people before they commit a crime. Before they act on it. I bet there are a LOT more paedophiles out there than we know about. They just don't act on it because they know it's wrong to act on it.

I am of course not saying being sexually attracted to children is a good thing or that it should ever be OK to act on it. No way. Just that I don't think people choose to be a paedophile and it must be pretty scary to realise you are attracted to children. Much the same way it used to be about being gay. And I don't imagine you can just ask friends, family or many people actually for help and advice.

I think in order to deal with a problem you need to understand it first.

I am willing to be convinced otherwise though if anyone has a good argument?

Disclaimer: I am not a paedophile, I just don't believe they are all evil.

OP posts:
wickedlazy · 30/09/2015 22:36

I think once a person abuses a child, they have crossed a line, and can't be the person they were before they commited this horrible act. And they should be harshly punished. Let them rot in prison.

But, anyone who has only thought about it, hasn't done anything legally wrong, yet. If they are having invasive thoughts, and want counselling etc to help, then that help should be available. If they won't go through therapy, they should be monitored?

Viewing child abuse images on a computer... to me, that's crossing a line too, but could have a two strike policy, once, you get counselling and are monitered, twice you have crossed the line and need harsh sentencing.

ButtonMoon88 · 30/09/2015 22:41

IT would be interesting to see how many paedophiles would sign up for treatment prior to comitting crimes, not just because of the judgement they would get by admitting this, but also surely part of the thrill, as with most fantasies, is the secrecy.

I find it hard to articulate my feelings on this because it's such a highly emotive topic. I sort of feel lots of things at once. There's a fine line for me because it's such a horrific crime to abuse a child, that goes without saying, but if there was someway of reducing judgement and helping those prior to comitting crimes, surely it would benefit all, potentially reducing the amount of children groomed, molestered, abused, watched online, so on... I haven't read the whole thread, I have probably repeated other posters, apologises!

Original poster
KissingFish · 30/09/2015 22:56

Oh how clever some of you are. Of course I must be a peadophile and I'm just trying to convince you all to hand your children over to me Hmm

I cant possibly just have sympathy for humans who have thoughts they know are wrong and feel we should try to understand more and help.

No, must be paedo! Hmm

OP posts:
ThroughThickAndThin01 · 30/09/2015 23:01

I think it was destined to be a difficult thread OP. It is a difficult and horrendous subject.

Looking at it objectively, I agree with you. So much better to provide a solution of help before, and just in case, he (normally) were to act on his thoughts. If stopped before an act is committed, it saves victims.

Maryz · 30/09/2015 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 30/09/2015 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mmmmcake123 · 30/09/2015 23:36

I understand that thinking about something without acting on it should not be criminal as such (I don't think most people would like a thought police).
However, I couldn't disagree more with labelling this as a sexual orientation and as for comparisons with homosexuality, I could scream.
Identifying an attraction to young people as an orientation opens it up to being acceptable. A previous post suggested if you get caught viewing images twice then you should be penalised, wtf. Don't people realise there is a supply and demand structure and that anyone viewing is part of the chain

kali110 · 30/09/2015 23:37

maryzdo you think the lack of evidence is due to the the fact that there is a lack of help until someone offends?
I've already said it, if we help them before they offend that is a good thing?
kissingi was also repeatedly accussed also, it really upset. I'm a regular bloody poster!
Suppose it's a new insult.

Mmmmcake123 · 30/09/2015 23:44

Would also like to know what the treatment is. I don't think there is an effective treatment, people fantasise about rape, which is equally abhorrent as it is without consent, therefore criminal. Would love to rob a bank, have fantasised for years, made plans n everything, watched all the best movies and got my MO down to a tee. Should I be entitled to help from NHS etc in case I act on it? No, it's pretty clear to all citizens that it is a crime. Shame this isn't the case here.

Maryz · 30/09/2015 23:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hairbrushbedhair · 01/10/2015 00:02

I personally think the treatment should be voluntary admission to hospital (a secure facility) to access a programme of psychological therapy whilst away from society but also on the understanding that if they try to leave while considered a risk they will be sectioned and held under the mental health act for the safety of themselves and others. They then wouldn't need a criminal record before it shows up on a DRB disclosure as it's relavent to vulnerable people (I think? Or if I'm wrong I think it should be automatically disclosed on any check to work with children or in areas they are like schools)

I then think monitoring them in the community perhaps by a tagging device and regular contact with a CPN or support worker who can flag them up if they are becoming more of a risk

And perhaps offering chemical castration

It won't stop every one. But it might stop some

ALassUnparalleled · 01/10/2015 00:09

This kind of post is designed to make us feel sorry for paedophiles. Instead of recognising that our natural disgust is what we should be feeling

Any man who is sexually attracted to children will be looking at children in a sexual way. That is child abuse. So a paedophile

I haven't read the entire thread but the above will do as examples of posters entirely missing the point.

MaryZ spot on in your comments.

Mmmmcake123 · 01/10/2015 00:30

Maryz, I am definitely not implying that anyone on the thread would think that, not sure why you think I would be if you've read my posts.
If one of my children showed tendencies towards being attracted to younger ones under the age of consent I would obviously still love them but do my job as a mum and let them know it just isn't on. Hark, it wouldn't be that easy I hear people say. I agree, but I would continuously explain why it isn't OK and why acting on any urges, including 'just watching videos' is criminal. In terms of therapy, I ask again, as far as I am aware there isn't any for pre-criminals and in a way there shouldn't be as this would just label a child on their thoughts. A bit to right wing if you ask me.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 01/10/2015 00:39

Chemical castration is not with out risk. And by risk I mean to a victim.

paedophiles who choose to act on their desires and become child abusers are making an active choice to do so, many of the, if chemically castrated will present an even greater risk and when factoring in the power and control issue removing the ability to act out will increase violence and potentially lead to not stopping the risk of sexual abuse.

I'm trying not to spell out exactly what I mean but it's why I think some sort of therapeutic really challenging work needs to be availible

littlefrenchonion · 01/10/2015 02:05

I don't agree it's an orientation. I would actually assume it's closer to a condition, a MH issue, on the basis that I'm sure it's something that occurs as a result of someone's poor experiences in life - perhaps exposure to something similar in early life themselves. It's a deviance from normal. It'll never be ok, not morally, not culturally. There are studies on high rates of divorce/low birth rates in child marriages in other cultures that back up the notion that we are biologically inclined to find sleeping with someone we've known from early childhood abhorrent.

I would argue that it isnt something 'you are born with' as at one point in life, when our hormones kick in in early teenhood, you are going to be attracted to other children your age. We all go through that. It's what happens beyond that as a result of your experiences I'm guessing.

I don't like the association with being gay, the difference is vast and it's insulting. Surely it's more like certain types of murder where MH is an implication?

I'm sure there are plenty of studies that would explain my reasoning better (I remember a few articles that were presented to us from my psychology degree days) but I have no intention of going looking for fear of stumbling across something I don't want to see.

amarmai · 01/10/2015 03:29

Thanks to Chaz who has opened my eyes to what has been going on here. If pedophilia is classified as an orientation it receives PROTECTED status. Thus a pedophile could not be refused a job in a school for instance because he is in a protected category. This battle is not over . That MN was targeted is disturbing but not surprising. Those who want this redefinition and reclassification of pedophilia have made other forays into MN threads. This will not be their last nor is it the only site they are using.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 01/10/2015 03:43

Thus a pedophile could not be refused a job in a school for instance because he is in a protected category

As things stand now a paedophile would not be refused a job in a school because no one would know unless he had actually abused a child (or viewed images which classes as abuse as far as I am concerned) and was caught.

Meerka · 01/10/2015 05:35

agreed completely with maryz too

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/10/2015 07:06

Baroness
If paedophilia is just viewed as a sexual orientation and so protected from discrimination someone could be open about being a paedophile and claim discrimination if they were refused a job in a school. That was what I was getting at when I highlighted that sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under Equality law. I think it would extremely dangerous to label paedophilia as a sexual orientation as that would give it legal protection.
Of course there may be hidden paedophile in schools now but not overt self declared ones protected from discrimination by law.

hairbrushbedhair · 01/10/2015 07:33

Thanks to Chaz who has opened my eyes to what has been going on here. If pedophilia is classified as an orientation it receives PROTECTED status. Thus a pedophile could not be refused a job in a school for instance because he is in a protected category. This battle is not over . That MN was targeted is disturbing but not surprising. Those who want this redefinition and reclassification of pedophilia have made other forays into MN threads. This will not be their last nor is it the only site they are using.

I think by this point in the thread though it was covered earlier, it's pretty much been agreed that it's not correct or appropriate to label it a sexual orientation and shouldn't be treated as one by every poster. Even those who earlier used the phrase or explored the idea. I don't see anyone fighting a battle for it to be considered a sexual orientation?

Doublebubblebubble · 01/10/2015 07:47

I just don't get or like this thread...

It seems that a lot of people here do find it comparable to a sexual orientation...

it is NOT a sexual orientation

"As long as they don't act on it...well that's just fine and dandy!"

If you are a paedophile who apparently has never abused a child, never looked at disgusting images something I find very very very hard to believe you must be at very least fantasising about raping and abusing children - its not like they think oh well today I'm not going to think about doing disgusting abhorent things to 2 year olds etc in order for the person (and others) to recognise that there is something very very very wrong!!!.

It makes me sick to my stomach!

People are born gay. People are born straight etc but being a paedophile is a choice!!!! There are no two ways about it! It doesn't matter if they think it is a normal thing to do (because they have been abused in the past etc) it is knowing right from wrong... All of these people know that what they are feeling is an illegal. Again making it a choice!

I agree with others that this whole thread is very very dangerously supportive of "paedophile rights" and there are groups who would love to read this!!

DontHaveAUsername · 01/10/2015 07:49

I feel quite sad for paedophiles in a way because they can't do anything to change who they are attracted to. It must be hell to be attracted to a certain group of people, know you can't act on it, and also being scared to talk to anyone about it in case of vigilante attacks. Obviously I'm just talking about the ones who don't act on their urges, my sympathy doesn't extend to those who do.

Doublebubblebubble · 01/10/2015 07:50

Sorry didn't realise that there was 8 pages orrefresh the page before posting...

goblinhat · 01/10/2015 07:52

It's deeply insulting to members of the LGBGT community to consider paedophilia as an orientation

Peadophilia is predatory and violent.

Meerka · 01/10/2015 07:52

It makes every normal person sick to the stomach

Actual practical ideas of ways of handling this problem are a lot more useful than getting sick and shutting your eyes to it hoping it will all go away.

It won't.