To be concerned about this?

[Frequency]

I started a thread a while back about the volume of food DC1 was eating under her secondary school's new lunch system (you pay online into an account, the child's thumbprint is scanned every time they make a purchase and the money debited from their account)

Well, it's come to light as to why she is buying so much food and it's not because she has grown a second stomach. She is subisidising her friends on free school meals.

She claims that sometimes their free school meal money does not get paid into their account on time, which I don't believe. I believe that they are following DC1 and other non free school meal friends and buying snacks at break, which their funds don't cover.

It's not so much the money that is bothering me, it's amounting to £2-3 a week, which whilst I'm hardly rolling in it, is not going to bankrupt me, especially if the girls in question would genuinely go without lunch otherwise (doubtful)

What's concerning me is the potential for bullying. For background info, DC1 was bullied relentlessly throughout year 6 and this is how it started.

She had a friend who never seemed to have any money. This friend would spend most weekends at our house, eating our food and joining our family activities, which didn't bother me at the time, she appeared to be a nice, if somewhat lonely girl, whose parents may be a bit busy to deal with her (she just turned up one weekend and stayed)

If they had plans with other friends this girls parents would never give her money, so without my knowledge DC1 funded her from her pocket money. Paying for her lunch in town or snacks after swimming and loaning her swimsuits etc because she had none. It was very sad and if I'd known I'd have felt for the girl.

One day DC1 didn't want to buy her lunch, she wanted to spend her pocket money on a book she'd been waiting for. This girl then threatened her, telling her if she didn't give her half of her pocket money, she would turn all of D1's friends against her. DC1 didn't give in, the girl stuck to her word. It got very nasty and didn't stop until I told the school if it was not dealt with I'd have to involve the police.

I'm worried that if DC1 has no money one day or simply wants to spend it on herself, that these two girls also start on her and that they may be taking advantage of her generous nature.

They seem to be spending most of their money on cakes and cookies (not ideal I agree) so I've suggested to DC1 that she make a couple of batches of cakes and cookies to take in with her and save everyone a bit of money, but it doesn't stop me being concerned that she is setting herself up to be bullied again. The girls are all in year 8.

Your Dd sounds like a lovely caring child and from the amount she is spending it doesnt seem as if she is being coersed into buying for several friends.

Maybe one friend really does have little to eat at times despite the fsm amount.
My school had a reunion meet up and a facebook page was set up. Lots of people commented about the old times, favourite teachers and popular kids etc
A couple of people started commenting about how they hated school and it seems as if a dam was burst because the comments became long stories about their schooldays and young lives. Unknown to any friends or teachers these young people had horrible home lives and were able to put on a front most of the time by playing the fool or moody kid act. But they were starving because there was nothing in their houses to eat.One girl fainted through lack of food and lied that she was on her period.
It is heartbreaking reading because everyone who knew these young people would have easily been able to help.They just didnt know.
They look back now and say their experiences have made them stronger and no doubt that is true. But they only needed a friend to recognise they needed subtle help and it would have made so much difference to their schooldays.

She is a lovely girl, Amazon, I'm very proud of her.

I'd actually never considered that one/both of the girls might be going without at home. I know DC1 told me that she'd bought breakfast for the girl because she was very hungry and her mum had run out of food but I really didn't think much of it. We run of food because I'm lazy/disorganised, I just give them a couple of quid to buy breakfast on the way to school, I assumed the mum had just forgot to go to the shops.

I'll admit I don't much about unemployment benefits these days, how hard it is or how easy/regular running out of food would be. I know she has a baby so would get income support wouldn't sh

I hope that's not the case, she only lives a few blocks away from the children's father. People in the uk, in 2015 should not be struggling to make sure their children get breakfast.

I'm not sure whether to mention this to the school now? I don't want to cause the woman any trouble if it was a one off but on the other hand if it's happening regularly maybe she needs some more support or is not claiming all she entitled to.

from my own experiences frequency, i would suggest that you do voice your concerns to school staff. you may be the only adult who has spoken up for her (albeit unknowingly to the dc) and set the ball rolling to give her some much needed support and consideration. her mum won't get into trouble, i think the staff will first speak to the dc and find out what's happening. i'm not sure what they are able to do if it transpires she doesn't get enough to eat at home but i'm fairly sure they will provide her mum with support rather than punish her.

I would mention it to school in confidence.if she isn't buying friendship they need help.
Its a sad state of affairs but children are going hungry in the UK
Some families lifes are chaotic
Some benefit sanctions are ridiculous
Some families on benefits end up in debt waiting for benefits to be sorted.

I worry what will happen to those sanctioned when universal credit is the norm and child tax credit isn't at least separate.

As a ex ta I've dealt with kids who's only meal has been the free school one. I have bought food as have teachers.

Bastard tories

When did we start teaching kids they need to give their fingerprints for food?

She has a baby, afaik, assuming it's the same child, I'm sure DC1 said she has a baby sister. So I assume she's on income support. Can you get sanctioned on IS?

These friends are all fairly new, I don't really know them. I know one of the girls is not allowed to call for DC1 because she lives too far away, so her parents at least seem responsible.

I should have time to sit her down tonight and have a proper chat about what's been going on. She doesn't seem to have bought double of anything this week, so it appears to be sporadic giving, rather than her constantly feeding her mates cake. She still seems to be eating a shocking amount of cake though.

The other girls not getting enough at home never entered my head. I was aware that food banks were on rise and things weren't great for people on benefits, but it possibly happening so close to home is a bit shocking. I feel a bit naive now.

I don't have a great job myself, but am fortunate that I have a good relationship with their dad and he pays maintenance for them and helps out with clothing them/paying for activities, plus ex-MIL cannot visit them as often as she'd like due to ill health/distance so she sends them food instead, albeit mainly crisps and sweets and chicken nuggets but it helps. I hadn't thought outside of my own little bubble I don't know many people on out of work benefits and none well enough for them to be telling me the ins and outs of their finances. I really did just think she must've forgotten to buy cereal/bread the night before like I occasionally do.

it might be better to sit your daughter down and have a long conversation with her.

a) you are concerned following previous episodes, she just needs to insist on boundaries and come to you if she feels uncomfortable in any way. I think you have to trust her to some extent not to let herself get back into a similar situation by stealth [not that it was ever her fault obv in the first place - but that she needs to learn to assert her rights over her own lunch allowance]

b) ask if she is concerned that her friend doesn't get enough to eat. If she wants to help her then cake is not the answer

c) have a conversation about how much cake she is eating.

My son recently was buying cakes and snacks and the school called us about it (we can see balance but not items) the upshot is he no longer has dinner money. He either takes a sarnie or he has nothing. I'm not bank rolling this or enabling others potentially bullying behaviour.

According to Gingerbread those on Income Support can and have been sanctioned www.gingerbread.org.uk/news/251/income-support-sanctions-risk

I work but was asking advise recently. I was told once dd is thirteen if I was a job seeker I would have to chose a job with any hours at all.
DD has Dyspraxia which affects her maturity but also has processing difficulties , little sense of danger and is a very very young for her age. I have left her for an hour and she had a panic attack and text me over a hundred times.

Last week she tried to make food by putting a full metal unopened tin in microwave for ten minutes but I was told I would be sanctioned if I didn't work any hours day or night once she's thirteen.

The worrying issue for me, OP, is why your daughter didn't learn from her bullying experience and is potentially repeating the pattern so soon again.

I managed to sit her down and have a proper chat.

She tells me that out of their group of five 2 are on FSM and do get £2.40 a day to spend, but only at lunch and not breakfast or break time. She admitted lying because she thought she'd get into trouble for buying her friends food when they have their own money.

One of her friends gets £25 a week to spend on food at school, this is girl she meets for breakfast. The other girl gets dinner money the same way DC1 does, when her account is low, her mum tops it up. This is the girl she bought a whole lunch for. She'd forgotten to ask her mum to top up her account and couldn't get hold of her by phone. She bought DC1 breakfast the next day (her online account does show that she did not buy breakfast the following day)

The £25 a week girl also buys cakes for the FSM girls. She started buying them before DC1. They never asked her to, she just did. She always has, ever since DCC1 started sitting with them in the canteen. DC1 just copied because everyone likes this girl, not just because she buys them cakes, but because she is, in DC1's words "a really nice person" and she wanted to be a really nice person too.

There are days when the FSM girls don't get cake off DC1 or her friend and they never ask, expect or look upset when they don't get cake. DC1 mainly offers on days where she is with just one of the FSM friends because she feels mean asking them to queue up with her at the canteen when they cannot buy anything. She doesn't think it's a nice thing to do and didn't think I'd really mind her buying a few extra cakes.

The day she bought breakfast she is the first time her friend has mentioned being hungry, she doesn't think she goes without breakfast at home very often. She'd told them her mum had to pay back some money she borrowed and didn't have enough to buy much food that week, so they'd run out before she got paid again. She didn't ask for breakfast, she just looked upset and when DC1 asked why she said she was hungry and her mum had been very upset because they'd ran out of food, so she was upset. The youngest siblings had tinned soup without bread, but she didn't want soup for breakfast. She texted her mum from DC1's phone to say she'd had breakfast to stop her being upset and the mum replied that she'd pay DC1 back when she could, but hasn't as yet.

I've talked to her about the quantity of sugar she is consuming and she understands that cake sometimes is okay, cake after breakfast, cake for snacks and cake for lunch is a bit much, but she's never had enough money to buy cakes before now and went a bit mad. She's going to think about other things she could buy or take in for snacks.

She didn't want to tell her dad exactly what had been going on because she didn't want to have to admit to lying to me. He is stricter than me and she thinks he'd have taken her phone away.

I feel a bit happier now I know that she's not being asked and doesn't feel she has to buy cake for them, but I still think I'll talk to the school and ask them to keep an eye on it.

I talked about buying friendships and she insists that's not what she is doing, she just wants to be nice to her friends. They were her friends before she started buying them cakes and she thinks they'd still be friends if she stopped buying them cakes. We also had a chat about lying and she's not going to lose her phone but understands that if she lies again I will not put her next top up on.

I'm really shocked, though sadly not surprised, that people with young children get sanctioned. Bastard tories indeed.

Well done op. I think you have handled it very very well and your dd sounds lovely.