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AIBU?

To be concerned about this?

63 replies

Frequency · 30/09/2015 10:33

I started a thread a while back about the volume of food DC1 was eating under her secondary school's new lunch system (you pay online into an account, the child's thumbprint is scanned every time they make a purchase and the money debited from their account)

Well, it's come to light as to why she is buying so much food and it's not because she has grown a second stomach. She is subisidising her friends on free school meals.

She claims that sometimes their free school meal money does not get paid into their account on time, which I don't believe. I believe that they are following DC1 and other non free school meal friends and buying snacks at break, which their funds don't cover.

It's not so much the money that is bothering me, it's amounting to £2-3 a week, which whilst I'm hardly rolling in it, is not going to bankrupt me, especially if the girls in question would genuinely go without lunch otherwise (doubtful)

What's concerning me is the potential for bullying. For background info, DC1 was bullied relentlessly throughout year 6 and this is how it started.

She had a friend who never seemed to have any money. This friend would spend most weekends at our house, eating our food and joining our family activities, which didn't bother me at the time, she appeared to be a nice, if somewhat lonely girl, whose parents may be a bit busy to deal with her (she just turned up one weekend and stayed)

If they had plans with other friends this girls parents would never give her money, so without my knowledge DC1 funded her from her pocket money. Paying for her lunch in town or snacks after swimming and loaning her swimsuits etc because she had none. It was very sad and if I'd known I'd have felt for the girl.

One day DC1 didn't want to buy her lunch, she wanted to spend her pocket money on a book she'd been waiting for. This girl then threatened her, telling her if she didn't give her half of her pocket money, she would turn all of D1's friends against her. DC1 didn't give in, the girl stuck to her word. It got very nasty and didn't stop until I told the school if it was not dealt with I'd have to involve the police.

I'm worried that if DC1 has no money one day or simply wants to spend it on herself, that these two girls also start on her and that they may be taking advantage of her generous nature.

They seem to be spending most of their money on cakes and cookies (not ideal I agree) so I've suggested to DC1 that she make a couple of batches of cakes and cookies to take in with her and save everyone a bit of money, but it doesn't stop me being concerned that she is setting herself up to be bullied again. The girls are all in year 8.

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Unreasonablebetty · 30/09/2015 12:47

Hmm,
If these children are on free school meals, wouldn't the school recognise that this is an area where (I think it's called) pupil pay? Would come in handy?
Now I've written it, I'm sure I've got the name wrong but I saw a thread on here where it was talked about at length, and DDs school sent the letters out to everyone too,
Apparently if a child has free school meals the school also gets a one off payment once a year, which can go toward extra activities etc, I wonder if they allow an amount of this for the children who would otherwise be hungry at snack time, and can't afford to get something.

Btw, I can't imagine parents being so hard up that they couldn't give their teenage children the money to get a snack at break time. Poor kids.
I was in the same situation as a teenager- I never allowed anyone to buy for me, cos it was hugely shameful that I was on free school meals and my parents refused to allow me any money for breaktimes.

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Electrolux2 · 30/09/2015 12:57

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Katie2001 · 30/09/2015 13:00

The only thing I'd say about previous responses on this thread, is that it might well be seen as fine to buy your friends an occasional treat. However, it's coming out of your money and not her pocket money, so really the money she's spending isn't hers to spend iyswim.

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Bubbletree4 · 30/09/2015 13:06

It sounds like bullying or buying friends to me. Either way, other kids are taking advantage of your dd and exercising power over her.

I would definitely do packed lunches. I cannot understand why you would make cakes for these girls who are blatantly overpowering your dd. Either that or you need to get her to say "my mum saw too much food on my account and is paying less now and monitoring what I get so I will be in trouble if I get anything for anyone else". These leeches aren't friends, they're bullies. It has nothing at all to do with sharing/being nice from the way your op reads.

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Rafflesway · 30/09/2015 13:20

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blobbityblob · 30/09/2015 13:20

We had a similar issue but dc younger. We give a few pounds to dd every week to buy tuck and drinks. We hadn't realised she'd been buying things for her friend as well. It had got to a point where it was an everyday thing with her friend expecting the cake and it was starting to put pressure on dd, and another friend then was asking for cake as well.

Friend's mum found out (sibling told her) and was absolutely mortified, insisted on returning money to me. She'd been sending tuck in so her dd was getting double treats. From that point on blanket ban on buying food/drinks for friends at school.

It's not about generosity. These friends are nice girls. But they don't yet understand that it's not ok to badger others for sweets/drinks/cakes and not buy any back. It put dd in a difficult position. She was finding it difficult to say no because she'd done it before, done it for one friend and not the other.

I'd go with telling her say my mum says I'm not allowed any more and she's cut the money down. Mine hasn't lost any friends over it. If anything I think it's helpful for her to stand her ground once in a while.

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composemail · 30/09/2015 13:26

It sounds like buying friends to me too. I have experience with this with dd.

Do not send her in with more cake unless she is sharing because she wants to not because she was made to.
I have been having issues with a child being a pain because dd wont let him use her sensory sen tangle toy this week. I almost bought the child in question one to mske them back off but why should I!

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Frequency · 30/09/2015 14:01

Sorry, I went out to buy cake to do RL stuff.

I think some people have assumed she is buying them food every day. This isn't happening. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to it.

For example, if I look at the last four weeks on her account, then on monday of week 1, she has bought 2 sausage buns, 2 fresh orange drinks and 1 water at breakfast and 2 cakes at morning break. She only bought her own lunch. She didn't buy anything for anyone else the rest of the week.

On Wednesday of week 2 she bought 3 cakes and 2 milks on morning break.

On week 3 she bought cake and fruit because I'd spoken to her about making better choices Hmm but it does only seem to be for herself (cake on morning break, fruit after lunch instead of cake for both)

On Wednesday of week 4 (last week) she bought 1 tuna salad, 1 sandwhich, 2 fresh grapes, 2 cakes and 2 bottled waters at lunch time and 2 hot chocolates at Friday breakfast.

This week, up to now she hasn't bought anything for anyone else, that I can see.

The system they use is parent pay, I have no idea how parent pay works for FSM but DC1 insists that her friends on FSM get random amounts paid in on random days and never know how much money they are going to have.

This system is supposedly to bridge the gap between the haves and the have nots and make it less obvious who is on FSM, but clearly is not working as it should be.

We got a new head half way through last year and this is one of the changes he made, it was implemented with a truck load of other changes this year. Parent Forum (also new) is to discuss these changes and whether they are working, which is why I was going to raise it then but have made an appointment to speak to DC1's personal adviser (also new) on Monday.

I was the child on FSM while all my friends were buying pizza at break and it's miserable, which is why I looked for a way to make sure every one could have their cake and eat it Grin but I take on board that it might not be a good idea and will have a re think.

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sunseeker67 · 30/09/2015 14:16

We have parent pay as well, and they use their thumb print to pay for things. DD's friends on school dinners get £2.40 put on their finger a day but they can take cash to top up.

I would not be happy with my dd buying things for her friends. For a start we can't really afford it and you can't keep subsidising other children, even if it is the odd cake here and there.

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sunseeker67 · 30/09/2015 14:18
  • should say dd's friends that get free school dinners
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composemail · 30/09/2015 14:23

Ours is topped up £2.20 a day here as far as I've heard for those on fsm.

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titchy · 30/09/2015 14:33

She may well think that they don't know from one day to the next how much is credited, but I can almost guarantee that in fact £2.20 will be credited every single day without fail. I wold say they are taking advantage of her good nature, and fear of having no friends, and it needs nipping in the bud.

And I'm sorry but to echo others suggesting she makes cake and brings that in for her friends is no different - it's still buying friendship. You both seem to be people pleasers so maybe you should both work on that a little?

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CocktailQueen · 30/09/2015 14:39

Oh, that's a shame - I did think she might be buying food for friends.

I think if she's not already being bullied, she's on the way to it. She needs to be able to have boundaries in place with these girls. It's not her - or your - place to sub them and buy them lunch! I'd contact the school, no matter what your dd says, and tell them just what's going on. I think they're taking advantage of her kindness and also her need for friends - NOT the actions of a good friend.

Maybe you could work on boundaries and self-esteem with her?

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MyrtleMoaning · 30/09/2015 14:40

DD2 has FSM, her last school used ParentPay. The FSM allocation was paid in daily, £2.20 a day. What her friends have told her about random payments is rubbish. She is being taken advantage of - 2 sausage buns, 2 orange juices, and a water? That sounds suspiciously like the friends are getting a sausage bun and orange for breakfast, and your DD got water.

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Frequency · 30/09/2015 14:49

She told me only 1 friend on FSM was there. They got a sausage bun each and a juice each and she bought the water to keep in her bag for herself.

I know she meets other friends at school for breakfast who are not on FSM. These friends are all new. I've only met one of them (one of the FSM friends) she's been on the outskirts of the group since mid last year but has slowly been getting closer to them. She doesn't see any of them outside of school as yet but one girl did call for her last weekend but she wasn't in, she has a friend from primary school she sees on weekends. She went to a different secondary because of the bullying and struggled a lot to make new friends.

I was at work last night so didn't have time to discuss this in depth with her, I could only call her on my break, but did email her dad when I realised what had been going on. He had a chat with her but says she was very cagey and defensive and wouldn't really discuss it with him other than to claim her friend would have gone hungry if she didn't offer to help. She has made it clear to me and her dad that she is offering, she's not being asked.

I haven't asked her if others are also buying for these two girls or what she thinks would happen if she didn't offer one day, but will make a point to.

I can only top her account up by £12.50 at a time and without buying for friends she spends more than this, so I can't really limit her money without cutting it right down to £12.50.

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KitZacJak · 30/09/2015 14:52

Why not just allocate the same amount that people of FSMs have to your daughter so she just has enough to buy lunch then she is no different to the others. I only give my son enough to buy lunch on certain days and on others I make a packed lunch. He is not allowed to buy extra stuff as its expensive and unhealthy (am I am not made of money)!

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BrianButterfield · 30/09/2015 14:56

I would tell the school - is there a house/year tutor/learning mentor person? I know if our pastoral team was aware of something like this they would find a way to sneakily monitor it without the child knowing - having a general message sent out to all form tutors that students should t buy for others on their own card, or doing a casual patrol through the canteen at break times.

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MyrtleMoaning · 30/09/2015 14:59

You can only top up the account by a minimum amount - last year, when DD2 was at her only school, it was £10, sounds like it's gone up this year. I think you need to get the school involved, OP.

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Frequency · 30/09/2015 15:13

Brian, there are 'parent-pupil advisers' pupils meet with them once a month and parents are supposed to make an effort to touch base with them regularly. I missed my last appointment due to illness.

I've made one to see them on Monday morning to discuss this and her general anxiety around friendship. They are aware of the bullying in her last school.

£12.50 is the minimum to top up now.

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DontMindMe1 · 30/09/2015 15:15

OP - i think you're dd is a beautiful soul for having such compassion for others (and at her age too) - and you can tell her i said that Smile

She sounds like a lovely person and a wonderful friend to have and is also strong enough to say 'no' and stick to it. I'm seeing aspects of myself in your dd, and from my experience i just want to say that you need to keep a very close eye on this- esp given the bullying.

i found that whilst friends were happy to accept my love of sharing with them - some of them turned very nasty and aggressive when i said no or wasn't able to share. i didn't expect them to reciprocate but even when they could and they knew i could have done with that help - they didn't and some would point blank refuse if i dared to ask. At that age it's easy to end up in a pattern and end up believing that you can only have 'normal' friendships if you are constantly giving. I didn't get support to navigate through those years and it ended up affecting my self esteem and self worth for years and played its part in abusive relationships.

It isn't your responsibility to make sure her friends get enough to eat or 'treats' but i do understand why you don't mind sharing what you can spare. No matter what happens, those kids will always remember 'the kindness of strangers' , and hopefully your and your dd's love and compassion for others less fortunate will rub off on them and they too will want to do the same as they experience life.

Just ensure that she has the support in place to help her if/when her being assertive results in her boundaries being breached/violated by others. Give her some good excuses she can use to easily get out of the situation if it's turning bad, something like "my mum's been checking the account, she doesn't mind me helping when i can but i'm not allowed to go over my budget". That way they're aware that you know and so any funny business from them will backfire on them. It also gets your dd 'off the hook'. Then, as you suggested, do something where she can take in 'treats/food' to share with them - might be a good idea if she could drop your name into somewhere - just something like "guess what my mum got for us all?" - so again they're aware that what's being shared is being done so out of love. hopefully they have it in them to appreciate that and will respect your dd's wishes when she says 'no'.

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MyrtleMoaning · 30/09/2015 15:19

No! Do NOT start making her cakes to take in.

Your DD needs to learn that friends are made, not bought. Or rather, this current set of friends need to.

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DontMindMe1 · 30/09/2015 15:28

she was very cagey and defensive and wouldn't really discuss it with him other than to claim her friend would have gone hungry if she didn't offer to help. She has made it clear to me and her dad that she is offering, she's not being asked.

Hmmm...i'm not savvy with how FSM work nowadays but i'm getting the feeling they're feeding her a sob story because they think she's a 'softy', and as she doesn't know how much they are allocated she's falling for it. Even in my day the FSM voucher paid for a decent 'basic' lunch of main, dessert and drink. I think you should find out from the advisor what the daily minimum allowance is on FSM and make your dd aware of it so she knows for herself - so next time they try the 'don't have enough' line she can put them straight.

i have no doubt that on FSM they can buy a basic lunch - they just want 'extras' or 'treats', which is understandable but they need to learn that they cannot demand those from your dd nor can they 'expect' them.

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Londonista123 · 30/09/2015 16:19

I think whether or not it's a good idea to bring homemade cakes in depends on whether these girls are really your DDs friends, who DD is offering to help, or simply girls manipulating your daughter for their benefit. I'd start by having your daughter tell them that Mum's been checking the account and she can't buy any treats, repeated once or twice, and see whether there's any change in their approach to your DD. If not, homemade treats (once in a while!) may be a good solution.

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choccyp1g · 30/09/2015 16:31

At our school we have parent pay, and for FSM it gives you up to £2.00 free stuff a day, but only at lunchtime and only for proper food. Bacon buggies or sausage rolls for breakfast or break have to be paid for, even if you don't buy anything else that day. So there is probably not enough cash for them to buy their own treats.
Still sounds like bullying or taking advantage.

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composemail · 30/09/2015 17:33

Our school doesn't allow buying of two items other than drinks for this reason. In some ways the fingerprint system cuts down on kids taking physical money. In another way I think its bad for them understanding what they are spending. When dd started I toped hers up for a month and she spent it in two weeks Shock buying extras at break times while I was going to work with a cheap pack lunch. That soon stopped!

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