To dislike "Radical Feminism"

[InternetPerson]

I've got nothing against feminists that fight for womens rights and genuinely want the best the best for everyone and don't hate anyone, but "RadFems" tend to be full of bitterness and hatred. And I'm not just talking about kids, these are high profile, intelligent women with power and influence. Do you think it's unreasonable to dislike something where most people think men are inherantly evil and to be feared? Or do you think their hatred is fair and we should respect them for their good work in trying to make humans hate eath other even more?

Like, I said, I have nothing against Feminism, it's done a lot of great work down the years and still does, but "Rad Fem" and "Feminism" are too completly different things in my opinion. Is this a wrong conclusion?

AIBU?

No shit?

Is it derailing on AIBU to point out a reason why people might not like radical feminism

To point it out? No

To persistently return to the topic, deliberately altering the nature of the discussion, making your point dominate? Yes, you are derailing.

Oh the irony!

I suspect the OP may agree with radfems on that one though.
Just a suspicion.

I think I am a radical feminist too. I think the idea of an innate gender is harmful (mainly to women).

Personally I think this thread has been very informative, even with the de-railing.

It's made me want to never go anywhere near a radical feminist meeting for one thing.

Rad Fem :Gender is a social construct which is harmful to women. Trans orthodoxy: that gender is innate. Two mutually exclusive ideas, I think we have covered this ad nauseam.

Ego doesn't derail threads. It's more 'merailing' - trying to make it all about her and her experience.

I don't see transpeople being excluded from women only gatherings as a negative aspect of radical feminism. I see it as a point of principle pertaining to that political ideology. I find it fascinating that Ego et al find that so hard to accept. It's not about them, it's not about their experience and yet it stands in Ego's mind at least as a huge ishoo and that's where it unfortunately fits in with a lot of other attacks on radical feminism from men born male and living as male. You get the whining about being 'excluded' from that group too. To which my answer is and always be ' Too right you are!'

It has been both useful and amusing to see a live working example of why transwomen might not be welcomed with open arms where women want to talk about issues that affect women.

I agree that this thread is very interesting. It madd me realise that I am a radical feminist.
Thanks all who took time to explain!

I think this insistence on crossing the boundaries some women have drawn for themselves, constantly berating them for doing so and then essentially calling them mean is rather indicative of the fundamental problem. I think this is an entitlement issue.

I also think it's very interesting that gendercritical transwomen don't call themselves (radical) feminists and actually go on to have very productive (and perfectly friendly) dialogues with feminists of all stripes.

I think it all needs to be kept very simple. In the last few thousand years men have moved things to take power - anyone with time do watch all4 episodes on iplayer of the Ascent of Women www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06dpxgx/the-ascent-of-woman-4-revolution.

Feminism is just fairness between the sexes and most of us in the UK want that. We certainly need many more women in positions of power.

I am choosing to ignore your personal attack.

I'm with the RadFems in there being no 'innate' gender as such. The idea is silly and pretty oppressive in application.

I'm less certain about there being a huge patriarchal conspiracy, as I think the reality is more accidental than that.

But there seems to be this idea that sticking up for one oppressed group becomes morally indefensible if it's seen as 'excluding' other groups. I think that's daft. In theory it might sound lovely but in practice it makes feminists responsible for fighting all oppression, ever, of all types and targets, when they were really just trying to do something about women. But if feminists have to be fighting all of it in order to be considered 'inclusive' and therefore morally defensible then the net effect is paralysis and an end to effective action. Which is a pretty effective strategy if you want feminism defanged, if you ask me

I agree Othehuge. Very effective strategy.

Ego - you've posted in this way on every feminism thread I've ever seen you on and you've had lengthy discussions with HQ re a policy on 'transphobia' too. Don't be surprised when posters point that out.

Once again a discussion about women has been shoved aside to make way for a discussion about trans.

I get more radfem with each of these threads that I read.

And I only like celery if it's slathered in cream cheese and think coleslaw without onion is bland.

I'm less certain about there being a huge patriarchal conspiracy, as I think the reality is more accidental than that.

Is it that there's a real actual conspiracy, though? Illuminati-style?

I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post!

Speaking as a RadFem, I can say that "belief in a patriarchal conspiracy on a global scale" isn't necessarily part of the deal. No one I know thinks it's deliberately and consciously organised oppression. It just emerges from the way our society moulds us. I suppose that's the big difference between lib and rad - lib doesn't seem to have that focus on how society teaches us to discriminate by class, it's all about individuals and their choices. Rad is more pointing out the systematic inequality that renders choice pretty meaningless.

It is amazing, isn't it, how quickly and invariably these kinds of threads get trans-railed. Specially when most of the focus of feminism has sod all to do with the tiny minority of people who think their body and their 'innate gender identity' are at variance.

Oh this old argument women demanding equality not asking for it are too aggressive, hate men, are damaging society

Same old arguments to shut the argument down

And what is wrong with women wanting to meet up with only other women and discuss issues that impact women and girls we have shared experiences of growing up as a female in a society that imposes restraints on us along with other issues