To dislike "Radical Feminism"

[InternetPerson]

I've got nothing against feminists that fight for womens rights and genuinely want the best the best for everyone and don't hate anyone, but "RadFems" tend to be full of bitterness and hatred. And I'm not just talking about kids, these are high profile, intelligent women with power and influence. Do you think it's unreasonable to dislike something where most people think men are inherantly evil and to be feared? Or do you think their hatred is fair and we should respect them for their good work in trying to make humans hate eath other even more?

Like, I said, I have nothing against Feminism, it's done a lot of great work down the years and still does, but "Rad Fem" and "Feminism" are too completly different things in my opinion. Is this a wrong conclusion?

AIBU?

I'd describe myself as a radfem. It's not so clear that radfems reject transpeople outright. Radfems are gender critical, but so are some transpeople. I really welcome the particular insight into gender that transpeople can offer and feel it strengthens my gender-critical position, my position on masculinity and the oppression of the other and my feminism in general.

Clearly, not all transpeople are gender critical and there are a few very vocal and aggressive transactivists who are speaking very hatefully about radfems at the moment. But not all transpeople are like that, just as not all radfems outright reject transpeople. We are all oppressed by the patriarchy, even if that oppression is experienced differently by women-born-women than it is by transpeople.*

*It is worth noting that that final statement will be intetptef by some though not all transpeople as transphobic.

I've discovered I'm pretty much Rad Fem, and I'm not full of bitterness, hatred, or fear of men (I do get angry sometimes, and possibly even aggressive, although as a 5 foot tall fat woman with a couple of kids hanging off me it's not really intimidating)

I don't like celery because it's brown and tastes like wee, AIBU (or is that not how this works? We can't make stuff up about a subject and say that's why we don't like it even though it's patently not the case, apart from in some dodgy 'evidence' from pinterest?)

I don't think that general association is fair:

Not all radfems reject transpeople.
Not everyone who wishes to exclude transpeople is a radfem.

ego

What on earth makes you think that my post was about you

We had two pages on celery and radishes!!

Okay, Ego, I'll bite.

What is it specifically about radfems that you don't like? You keep saying that we don't like transwomen but that's not true. I have two transwomen friends and I'm a radfem.

Does that mean that I'm not a radfem or that they're not transwomen?

As a radfem, I certainly don"t consider attitudes to transwoman to be a defining issue for radfems.
Trans issues are naturally of vital interest to trans folk, but are merely one of a hundred peripheral factors for us.

For me radfem is about changing society to remove the disadvantages and violence that women face in a society still dominated by male power and attitudes.
As a BME woman, I also have a special interest in how racism can sometimes worsen the situation even more for us.
And I want radical change to the obscene income / wealth / health inequality.

For all of these aims, cosmetic tinkering is not enough.
Conservatives and mens rights groups want us to remain quiet & respectful, so they can carry on business as usual.

So, with all these dangerous radical interests, I don't normally consider trans issues, except when Kim / Ego / etc raises it on threads about feminism.

Radfems areare not a class. They are more like a political party.

You might say that it is more likely that a radical feminist rather than say a libfem would be trans-excluding. I might agree but I also might argue about how you define exclusion, and I think it is outright misleading to suggest that radfems are just basically hateful or aggressive towards trans people. They have serious points to raise which are overlooked in the general accusation of transphobia

1000 posts - but exactly how many are from you jabbering on and on ad nauseum?

Groups campagning to help biological women will sometimes want to meet on their own.
Same as some BME meetings or clubs are not for white Caucasians. That is absolutely not anti-white phobia, just our own space sometimes, so it is 100% about us, no distractions from other groups, however worthy their cause.

Just hoping the RAD Fems will be out and about inspiring the kids (& women & men) coming in en masse to Europe. YEP...

I think the progress of this thread might give some indication of why some radical feminists feel that excluding transwomen is sometimes the best option. It doesn't appear possible to have a discussion about any feminist issue where a transwomen is present that doesn't get derailed into a discussion about trans issues.

Trans issues are marginal for radical feminists - there's a lot more happening in the world.

I think if you want to be in a space like, for example, a radical feminist meeting, you should show some kind of interest I what the majority wish to discuss without derailing. As Ego carefully demonstrates, there are people who want to go to such meetings as a symbol of acceptance but couldn't give a single, solitary curse for the purpose of the meeting or the other attendees.

If BigChocFrenzy organises a thing for BME women, it doesn't piss me off that I can't go, that's her prerogative as a BME woman.

If I want to be in a room and talk about rape with only rape survivors, that's also my prerogative.

If transwomen want to get together on their own and talk about their lives as transwomen, that's their prerogative.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I can't get pissed off because I don't fit into those categories.

Maybe we should ask Ali to write a song about celery and radishes.

I consider myself a radical feminist (thanks to working it out from the feminism boards on here). I don't 'reject' transpeople at all. What I reject is the idea that performance of gender is a 'real' thing rather than a construct. Sex is real; biological differences. Gender is a construct, which oppresses women (and men, but mainly women).

It's not up to my trans friends to explain why they feel gender in a way I don't. I do however, feel that it is my right to want a female (sex not gender) HCP to do smears, if I use a sexual health clinic, if I have to use a rape crisis resource or if I am in a women's shelter. Oddly offline, the trans people I know seem to have no issue with that, although they would like access to safe supportive resources as well.

What a difference14 pages make.
I scanned the first page where nobody was a radfem, and they were all ripping the op a new one for suggesting such a thing even existed..
Then I jumped to the last page and find practically everybody is one. ??

You can't discount an entire group of people based on a few nuts within that group.

That'd be like discounting all Christians because of Westborro Baptist Church protesters.

Or....

Discounting all atheists because of Richard Dawkins.

Or...

Discounting all men because a few are murderers and rapists.

It's just unfortunate that like most feminist groups, the loudest most ridiculous members are heard and remembered. Rational arguments and approaches are mundane and don't stick in our collective memories as much as say a woman burning her bra with her shirt off for all to see.