To be concerned about this girl

[JKsHair]

Apologies if this post is a bit convoluted.

My DC go to a primary school which is attached to a secondary. One of the families at the school have DC at the primary and secondary. The oldest girl left the secondary six months ago to have a baby, she was year 11 when she left. She has a younger sister in Year 9 and then some siblings in the primary school.

Since she had the baby I think i've seen her twice with the child. She came to pick up her siblings with the baby a few times just after she had the child and came to the primary sports day with the rest of her family. The mum/dad/grandparents also came.

Since then the baby is always with the younger girl (the girl in year 9). She takes the younger DC to school in the morning and always has the baby with her. Sometimes she has her uniform on but doesn't seem to be going to school as I see her pushing the pram the opposite way on the way home. She also picks the DC up from the primary before the secondary kicks out. Yesterday I picked DS from football and she had the baby again and was picking one of her siblings up from the club.

I've seen her quite a few times in the local area pushing the pram around (again she sometimes has her uniform on but doesn't seem to be near the school). She picks the youngest DC up most days. My friend has a DS in her year and I asked him last week if he knew her and he said I think she only comes in half days nobody really knows her.

Anyway cut to this morning and I was walking behind her after drop off and her older sister (the babies mum) came the other way. Younger girl shouts at her 'where the fuck have you been you need to take x' the older girl shouts back 'I'm not fucking taking her i've got to go to y's house fucking take her home' Ignoring the swearing AIBU to think someone should be asking why this girl seems to be taking care of this baby and siblings all day and not in school?

I was speaking to DP about it and he said its none of my business and she probably doesn't look after her all day. He also said the school probably know whats going on and don't need me gossiping.

I don't agree with the 'no of your business' it's that attitude which causes children to slip through the net. Do you know the child's name? If I were you I would speak with someone at the high school - just mention you've noticed she has a lot of responsibility for her age and you are concerned, for her, and for the baby they should say 'yes, we're working on it' or such or 'we've tried to involve social services, could you call them too'. Good luck.

It is none I'd ur business. I if she goes half days there's probably a reason for it.

yes and that reason could be that her family are expecting her to look after her sisters baby, the sister may be neglecting her baby and their parents are neglecting their daughters education

whatever the reason she is a child herself who is missing out on school

Yes, report this to SS, maybe after speaking to NSPCC. The year 9 girl should not be caring for this baby - she has a right to her education.

In my head, the older girl is being expected by working parents to look after her own baby and also help out by picking up younger siblings. She doesn't want to do it, so is passing it down the line to the next one, including looking after her own baby.

This may or may not have been picked up by the school. Not in the same league as far as we know but Baby P had lots of people who spotted he was in trouble, but they all expected someone else was dealing with it.

Don't allow this girl to slip through the net because people are convinced others are dealing with it.

She may have physical or psychological problems an consequently only doing half days.i can not believe the school would not know she is turning up late and going early every day.She may have school anxiety, be on chemo and doing part time.Or in some secondary schools you can attend courses off-site.
I don't think you need to intervene in this particular scenario.

I don't get all these people who come up with It could be this reason, or that reason. The point is no one here knows the reason or can be sure the school/SS are already involved.

What is clear is there is definitely something amiss so why not raise your concerns with the school? If they are already aware and addressing the issue then no harm done but if not, well now someone has brought it to their attention.

I really fucking despair of people who take the "none of my business, I'm not getting involved" attitude

Sod that, I would be reporting. I note Theycallmemellow has suggested NSPCC and I would say the same. I don't get the "mind your own business" thing, how many cases do we know of where exactly that has happened and the results have been a human tragedy. They are the ones that are reported in the press.

Maybe the younger girl is a serial truant and the school and parents are happy with half days (as happened with my friend's DS)

Until, if that actually happened then both the school and the parents were breaking the law.

Unfortunately, the circle will go on unless someone contacts Social Services, the next child will have a baby and a younger sibling will bring that child up.....it seems this country is going backwards, children used to bring up their siblings in this fashion in the late 1800's. Surely everyone knows this is not right and to say mind you own business on a sensible forum such as Mumsnet ....ladies you should be ashamed!

There are many legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't be in school full time.

There really aren't, Needs. The starting point is that every parent has a duty to arrange full time education for their child, and therefore they can only be off school if there are good medical reasons for that. Given that this child is being seen out and about during school hours with her sister's baby, and is collecting her younger siblings, it doesn't look as if medical reasons apply. Even if they are being home educated they are supposed to be spending a respectable amount of time during termtime in education, and on the face of it it appears unlikely that this child alone is home educated, especially if she's wearing school uniform.

She may have physical or psychological problems an consequently only doing half days.i can not believe the school would not know she is turning up late and going early every day.She may have school anxiety, be on chemo and doing part time.Or in some secondary schools you can attend courses off-site. I don't think you need to intervene in this particular scenario.

Oh, come off it, Brioche. It is unlawful for a child only to have half time education: if they can't be in school for medical or psychological reasons, then they have to have education provided through home tuition or something similar. And do you seriously think a child on chemotherapy should be left in sole charge of a baby and her younger siblings?

Even if there might be a reason like that, how can OP know, and how could it hurt for her to raise her concerns? If there is a valid reason for what is going on, fine; if not, then something can be done about it.

One of the problems with families known to Social Services, is people often don't report things. That means they don't get the full picture. Without the full picture, thet can't give the most appropriate support.

Right, let's say there are valid reasons for it. What harm does it do to mention it to the head?
And perhaps one of those in favour of ignoring it could explain how they think neglect is usually picked up on? The parents themselves calling ss? Or a public speech where the parents declare their intentions?

Oh, come off it, Brioche. It is unlawful for a child only to have half time education:

You see that is the problem! Ignorance!! It is not uncommon for children to be on a reduced timetable for a variety of valid reasons .My own child as not well enough for fulltime school for over 2 years because of chronic fatigue syndrome following what seemed like a trivial virus.Another child i know suffered life changing injuries and only does a part-time timetable, another I know is an Olympic athlete and is out of school more than in it!

LurkedForevet Actually i would have been extremely pissed off if i found that somebody had 'reported' my part-time DD.The school would have then had to reply to 'reporter' that there were reasons for Dds flexischooling , and quite frankly that would piss me off too.

Further more the teachers at the primary school have a LEGAL DUTY to report ANY suspicion of neglect.It is a condition of their employment.Do you think that they are ALL failing in this duty.

Update. Spoke to one of the other mums at the school today and mentioned seeing the girl with the baby all the time.

She said (direct quote pretty much) oh they're a right mess, SS have been involved for years, that's not the older girls first baby (apparently she has a toddler boy as well). Younger girl isn't allowed in school all week because of behaviour issues, apparently she goes to the referral unit for the other time. Also mentioned that the mum of all of them is pregnant again.

So I imagine from all that that I don't need to call SS, sounds like they are already aware.

Thanks for all the advice

How sad :(

Well I am sure parents are pissed off when someone else reports concerns but that should never stop anyone from doing so

How depressing.

There really aren't, Needs. The starting point is that every parent has a duty to arrange full time education for their child, and therefore they can only be off school if there are good medical reasons for that. Given that this child is being seen out and about during school hours with her sister's baby, and is collecting her younger siblings, it doesn't look as if medical reasons apply. Even if they are being home educated they are supposed to be spending a respectable amount of time during termtime in education

Reduced timetables, flexi schooling,travelling families combined education, reintegration into school plans, medical needs does not have to mean something serious or visible.

And when home educating there is no requirement at all to follow term times/school days and there is no time requirement or expectation of it at all unless you are post 16 and the only requirement is set by child benefit not the ed auth

My own child as not well enough for fulltime school for over 2 years because of chronic fatigue syndrome following what seemed like a trivial virus.Another child i know suffered life changing injuries and only does a part-time timetable, another I know is an Olympic athlete and is out of school more than in it!

You really think that's definitley going to be the reason here?

If she is too ill for school, she ahouldnt be looking after the other kids. If she was an athlete, she wouldn't be walking the streets with a baby.

op she obviously isn't going to the referral unit though? Or have I misunderstood.

Ultimately, is this girl experiencing an education that allows her choices in life- doesn't sound like it. It sounds like a child pushing a child around for another child. It all sounds grim and doomed.

And besides which, if the OP spoke to school (though I can see why she isn't doing now) and the school was aware of good reasons, what harm can it do.

However if something was wrong, the OP is helping. I would rather report this kind of thing and the school be already aware then ignore a child in need.

brioche well that's tough. In a situation like yours, all school would say is 'yes we're aware'. If you think the need not to offend you should be put above any duty to mention possible neglect of other children, then I'm afraid your priorities are warped.

My dd now has different holidays to the local schools. If someone reports her for truancy, out of misplaced concern, then so be it. No harm done.

Op that's so sad. Poor kids.