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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To find people who shout about their views on behalf of others wearing?

69 replies

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 17:11

Fwiw I hold liberal conservative views. I'm pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro live your life any way you bloody well please as long as it doesn't impact on mine.

However I'm finding with the advent of social media and the Internet people have got more of a platform to voice their views and see it as their right to have everyone listen to them and accept their standpoint with people who challenge it being g wrong or uncaring etc

There are are few that are going round twitter at the moment that I'm finding hard to reconcile my liberal head with my conservative head over. Those being the #shoutyourabortion and the cis issues. I don't know if the former is because I have struggled with miscarriage and infertility or whether I find such a private matter to be seen as something to be proud of abhorrent. Either way I feel I am ever increasingly not being able to voice my more conservative side in today's society.

Aibu to find the ever louder voice of people campaigning for perceived rights wearing?

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 22/09/2015 17:19

I know what you mean. It's like conspicuous grief and other overtly public displays of emotion - it screams 'look at me' more than anything else. I am always dubious as to the depth of understanding such posters have, the louder they shout the less I imagine they know about the issue they shout about!

So I don't tweet, fb is locked down and I post anonymously and ignore the monster shouters as much as possible.

DoJo · 22/09/2015 17:24

If people hold strong beliefs and are prepared to defend them in public then why should they hold back? If you don't feel as though you want to discuss the issues that you find more challenging, then that's your prerogative, but I don't really see how you are 'not able' to voice your views. Of course people are going to believe that those who challenge them are 'wrong' and of course people are going to feel as though their own social media pages or websites are a place where they can feel free to express their views.

You don't have to comment if you feel that they are incorrect, and you don't have to post on your own site if you prefer not to, but I don't think that there is any shortage of places for people with any political views to air their opinions, so I would disagree that you are in some way less able to voice your opinions than those who don't share your views, but YANBU to find it wearing. I can only suggest that you avoid those who you know you disagree with.

BertrandRussell · 22/09/2015 17:26

Either way I feel I am ever increasingly not being able to voice my more conservative side in today's society."

Why not? What do you feel is stopping you?

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 17:30

Its the whole "you can't call yourself a compassionate person with those views" and "I'm more tolerant than yaou" attitude that shuts down discussion that makes it wearing.

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OurBlanche · 22/09/2015 17:33

From my perspective it is the apparent right to disagree rudely, aggressively and then to call you names in order to make themselves right that is offputting.

Real life example: vaping. Person A thinks vaping is as bad as smoking. I disagree. Person A replies "Oh, so you want people to die just so you can have freedom of choice? You think it is right for children to be tricked into killing themselves. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, you are as bad as the Nazis"

I did reply but she, and her little coterie other friends just continued shouting, posting bad science and personal insults because they care so much more than I do.

I can easily live without ever having to speak to any of them ever again, sadly I am related to some and live next to others!

DoJo · 22/09/2015 18:20

I know someone like that, and I simply don't enter into discussion with him as he has a wearing habit of failing to address points, turning to straw man arguments and ending with personal attacks based on nothing more than his own inability to form a coherent argument - it's nothing to do with his views (more on the conservative side for what it's worth) and everything to do with his ability to engage in reasoned debate.

It sounds like you think that these traits are exclusive to those who hold more left wing/liberal views, whereas the truth is that this style of 'discussion' isn't limited to those with any particular political leanings and can be found on all sides of the debate.

JawannaDrink · 22/09/2015 18:39

You're completely missing the point about #shoutyourabortion, for one. It's about dispelling myths and stereotypes, and breaking the taboo of abortion. It's something that women are told to be silent about, be ashamed of, don't ever mention. This is fighting against that, the culture of secrecy and shame that contributes to keeping abortions illegal in some countries, and makes it harder to access information and services.

Who are you to tell women what they should be able to talk about? It makes you uncomfortable, well tough luck. It's not all about you.

JawannaDrink · 22/09/2015 18:42

Oh, and "I'm not able to voice my views" generally seems to actually mean "I realise my viewpoint is old-fashioned/out of favour/possibly offensive and I am uncomfortable stating it loudly because I know I'll be called out on it".

If you have views or principles, say so. If you feel you can't say them, its probably because you're a bit ashamed of them.

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 18:44

jawanna your post sums up my argument in a nut shelll

Maybe I'm being too British about it but I think some things you should be discrete about and raise awareness in other ways. The tone in some of the tweets on both sides of the abortion discussion is awful and I do find it offensive.

I am pro choice but I don't think your views should trump mine on this. I am disturbed at the pride women are showing in having had a serious medical procedure that has physical and psychological implications. They're too flippant about it. There's no respect for people for whom it is a harrowing decision to make and for women who have struggled after having the procedure. Never mind the fathers who this has also affected.

But hey.

Fuck the patriarchy eh! (and yes many tweets including ones by the starter of this movement say that)

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Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 18:45

I have no problem stating my views at all and they're not old fashioned. They're actually quite common.

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MsTargaryen · 22/09/2015 18:49

I disagree that it's about being ashamed or knowing you'll be called on it. People's reactions to opinions aren't always level headed or polite calling out. A person can recognise that their view isn't a popular one and then not share it due to wanting to avoid the abuse that will result. Not everyone is up for the shouting down or debate that ensues so it's easier to be quiet about it instead.

DoJo · 22/09/2015 18:57

I am disturbed at the pride women are showing in having had a serious medical procedure that has physical and psychological implications. They're too flippant about it.

In your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to voice should you choose. But why are you the arbiter of how 'flippant' someone can be about a decision that they have made which has had a positive impact on their life?

Having an abortion can save a woman from an abusive relationship, protect them from financial devastation or just prevent months of dread and the feeling that they have made a mistake which will affect them for the rest of their lives - why should those who have found the decision harder to make or been traumatised by the procedure trump those for whom an abortion has had a positive impact on their lives?

It sounds like you are the one who would rather those on one side of the debate were not able to voice their views - finding an issue upsetting doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed, and you appear to be the one suggesting that debate should be shut down because some people disagree.

JawannaDrink · 22/09/2015 19:00

I don't see how. I'm not removing your ability to state an opinion in any way. If your opinions aren't robust enough to be challenged, don't blame me . Thats on you.

JawannaDrink · 22/09/2015 19:02

I am disturbed at the pride women are showing in having had a serious medical procedure that has physical and psychological implications. They're too flippant about it.

It does NOT have serious physical or psychological implications for many, if not most people. That is one of the very myths that need to be argued against.
How fucking DARE you tell women they not only aren;t allowed to talk about events in their lives, but also that they are flippant about it? Who the fuck do you think you are?

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:02

I am well aware of women's reasons for having an abortion. I fully support their right to have one and will always argue on the side of pro choice, because I am.

What I don't like is not just on this issue but other issues too where people get all preachy about their views and shut down the argument. They defend their stance with personal insults of "you are and idiot" "you're clearly poorly educated" and won't see there are two sides to things.

It's simply thinking before you write. I wouldn't call you a twat for holding your views. I'd be good for you for thinking that however I disagree with you because of x y z... I'd rather end an argument with "agree to disagree" than have it descend into a slanging match.

Something that some quarters don't seem to believe in and seem to back a cause because they like a scrap.

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Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:03

jawanna I thank you for your posts as you're proving my case. Please. Carry on.

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JawannaDrink · 22/09/2015 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:07

Well you're a delight to engage with aren't you.

I'm sorry I don't feel having a medical procedure is something to be proud of. Shall I start a twitter # of #shoutmypiles?

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DoJo · 22/09/2015 19:12

What I don't like is not just on this issue but other issues too where people get all preachy about their views and shut down the argument. They defend their stance with personal insults of "you are and idiot" "you're clearly poorly educated" and won't see there are two sides to things.

But your assertion that people are being 'too flippant' and saying that you feel that taking pride in having had an abortion is 'abhorrent' could be interpreted in the same way - as dismissing someone's right to have their say based on your personal belief that they should approach it in a way that appeals more to your sense of the tone that such a debate should take. You may feel that it is more reasoned than calling someone an idiot or poorly educated, but it is still offering a moral judgement to support your standpoint which will always lead to disagreement from those who don't share your views.

For those who you have effectively called 'flippant' or 'abhorrent' for sharing their stories for the common good (as they see it), an emotional response is almost inevitable. The style of debate that you are criticising isn't limited to those who articulate their thoughts in a more provocative manner, it's just easier to spot.

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:15

It works both ways though.

In emotional debate people do shut discussion down by saying "won't somebody think of the..." you see it in benefits discussions, discussions about the NHS, education etc. An element of society gets het up about something (could easily be right as much as left wing) and when challenged on it brings out the emotional language and shuts down debate and rather than come back with an argument just get louder and more insulting and more off topic.

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EnthusiasmDisturbed · 22/09/2015 19:17

I am pro choice but I don't think your views should trump mine on this. I am disturbed at the pride women are showing in having had a serious medical procedure that has physical and psychological implications. They're too flippant about it. There's no respect for people for whom it is a harrowing decision to make and for women who have struggled after having the procedure. Never mind the fathers who this has also affected

so you are pro choice only if women act in what you see as being respectable

mmm ok then Hmm

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:20

Have an abortion
Don't have an abortion

Your choice. Not my business.

I'll defend your right to have the choice however I don't see its something to be proud about.

That is my opinion. Yes.

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EnthusiasmDisturbed · 22/09/2015 19:23

well we are allowed to talk about sex, rape, fertility issues, sexual assault but we can not talk about our experience having a termination

I am not ashamed I have had a termination and I will not be silenced talking about it if I want to

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:26

Nothing wrong with talking about termination and your experience of it. Raise awareness and bring down archaic laws. It needs doing.

Bit different to making it sound like something to aspire to which is the tone coming off some tweets. Like it's a rite of passage. It's not, it's a serious undertaking.

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Backforthis · 22/09/2015 19:27

You can have whatever views you want. You seem to be 'pro choice as long as ...' That's your right. It's also other women's right to choose to express how they feel about having had abortions.