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AIBU?

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Original poster

To find people who shout about their views on behalf of others wearing?

69 replies

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 17:11

Fwiw I hold liberal conservative views. I'm pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro live your life any way you bloody well please as long as it doesn't impact on mine.

However I'm finding with the advent of social media and the Internet people have got more of a platform to voice their views and see it as their right to have everyone listen to them and accept their standpoint with people who challenge it being g wrong or uncaring etc

There are are few that are going round twitter at the moment that I'm finding hard to reconcile my liberal head with my conservative head over. Those being the #shoutyourabortion and the cis issues. I don't know if the former is because I have struggled with miscarriage and infertility or whether I find such a private matter to be seen as something to be proud of abhorrent. Either way I feel I am ever increasingly not being able to voice my more conservative side in today's society.

Aibu to find the ever louder voice of people campaigning for perceived rights wearing?

OP posts:
Backforthis · 22/09/2015 19:29

You believe it's a 'serious undertaking.'

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:29

Very true.

However no side is right. However the attitude expressed even on this thread would indicate that's not the case. That some people feel only one side of an argument can ever be articulated.

Fwiw I'm not "pro choice as long as..."

OP posts:
Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:29

So if it's not a serious undertaking then is it something that is a flippant undertaking then?

OP posts:
DoJo · 22/09/2015 19:30

An element of society gets het up about something (could easily be right as much as left wing) and when challenged on it brings out the emotional language and shuts down debate and rather than come back with an argument just get louder and more insulting and more off topic.

I'm not sure that you are any less guilty of that than those that you seem to feel are impinging on your right to have your say. Your response to Jawanna was to resort to sarcasm and personal insults almost immediately - you may think that this was warranted, but it hardly demonstrates an unwillingness to engage with that level of debate.

MsTargaryen · 22/09/2015 19:31

It kind of proves the point I made about abuse and being shouted down. OP has been told to fuck off on the horse she rode in on. That's not exactly challenging a point of view. It's abusing someone for a point of view.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 22/09/2015 19:31

no they are expressing they feel no shame and they celebrate that they have that choice

and for many it is not a serious undertaking its just something that needs to be done quickly as can be done and there is nothing more to it, its a procedure

but we are not allowed to think that way, we have to feel terrible sadness and shame and punish ourselves

Bulbasaur · 22/09/2015 19:32

Yeah, I'm pro-choice, and the #shoutyourabortion thing irritates me. It just makes it seem like something to celebrate and be proud of instead of taking down the stigma. Personally I think it should named something different. They've done a good job with taking down stigma for mental illnesses, why not follow that same vein?

We don't have #shoutyoureunthanizedpet. It's good thing to euthanize pets, yes. But it's not something to throw a party over either.

When shouting about something, I would think about something needing about celebrating, like running a marathon, or accomplishing something your worked for. An abortion is just a medical procedure and biology, these women didn't personally accomplish anything anymore than a person getting an appendectomy has.

But the whole "look at me" attitude about it just makes it seem like a immature teen "fuck the world" and "Hey guys! Look how much I don't care! See? I don't care sooo much I'm making sure everyone knows" mindset, which is off putting. It's just trying so hard to be edgy that it comes off as obnoxious.

DoJo · 22/09/2015 19:35

So if it's not a serious undertaking then is it something that is a flippant undertaking then?

And again - you claim to be after a more nuanced debate, yet you frame your questions in a black and white way which belies that. There are a myriad of ways to describe an abortion other than either 'serious' or 'flippant' - for some it is just 'necessary'. The emotion doesn't really matter when it comes to the fact that the right to have such a procedure shouldn't be limited to those who fulfil some arbitrary criteria dreamed up by those who are pursuing their own political, religious or personal agendas.

Backforthis · 22/09/2015 19:36

Those are your feelings. Serious vs flippant. Flippant is how you see those posts and a serious undertaking is how you feel women should approach having an abortion. I doubt that the women who have tweeted would view themselves as being flippant.

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:36

Its more of a case of being exasperated.

I am being flippant and sarcastic in the face of full on foul insults from people. I think I'm being quite moderated in my posts all things considered Grin

OP posts:
DoJo · 22/09/2015 19:37

It's just trying so hard to be edgy that it comes off as obnoxious.

I thought it was trying to show that Planned Parenthood is a much-needed resource in the US which shouldn't be condemned as something that 'other people' do, so much as celebrated as something which is available to people who need it from all walks of life, in a variety of situations and for reasons that shouldn't really matter to anyone who isn't actually doing it themselves.

DoJo · 22/09/2015 19:42

I am being flippant and sarcastic in the face of full on foul insults from people.

You don't have to engage with anyone if you think that they are failing to contribute to a debate - you can ignore them. But if you allow them to exasperate you to the point that you respond in kind then you are potentially excluding yourself from a more reasoned debate that can still be had if you choose, and becoming part of the problem that your first post complains about.

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:42

Good point dojo

OP posts:
Bulbasaur · 22/09/2015 19:45

I thought it was trying to show that Planned Parenthood is a much-needed resource in the US which shouldn't be condemned as something that 'other people' do, so much as celebrated as something which is available to people who need it from all walks of life, in a variety of situations and for reasons that shouldn't really matter to anyone who isn't actually doing it themselves.

I know what they are trying to do. But what they are trying to do, and what the movement is coming across as don't line up.

Why couldn't it be called something like #abortionNOstigma, #OutofMYuterus or something?

I'm cringing because it's not doing PP any favors by preaching to the choice and alienating people that are on the fence, or even the ones that are embarrassed. Because now, the ones that do feel a bit of shame (and they really shouldn't), could feel worse because admitting it might come across as being proud instead instead of helpful to people that need support and reassurance.

It just caters to a certain type of crowd instead of all women who have gotten an abortion. Some aren't happy about it, but found it necessary and this hashtag by it's nature excludes those women, and creates a black and white dichomoty of "Abortions rock!" and "Women all regret their abortions to the point of self loathing... as they should!".

DdramaLlama · 22/09/2015 19:47

I saw the shoutyourabortion post on my facebook feed earlier. I think there is a difference between saying that you are not ashamed of something and saying that you are proud of it. Someone saying that they are proud of their abortion doesn't sit right with me either.

YouTheCat · 22/09/2015 19:47

There's this thing called an off button. There's also the 'hide post' facility.

I suggest you use them instead of trying to dictate what others may think or feel.

Original poster
LunchpackOfNotreDame · 22/09/2015 19:48

Why should I turn it off? You're essentially saying their views are more important and more right than mine by saying that.

OP posts:
Bulbasaur · 22/09/2015 19:49

I just think that if you're going to get rid of a stigma you should show that all women from all walks of life have gotten them. They were adults making the best decision they could given their situation.

The hashtag isn't doing that, and is only giving conservatives more ammo. Unfortunately, our uterus's are something for the general population to vote on over here. You wouldn't vote on chemo. But it is the way it is at the moment, and the last thing we need is more rallying points for the other side.

yorkshapudding · 22/09/2015 19:51

I don't understand why other people expressing their opinions means you can't express yours. You seem to feel that people sharing different political views to your own are doing it 'at' you.

If someone posts something you disagree with you are free to debate them, ignore it and go about your day or simply unfollow or unfriend them if it bothers you that much.

YouTheCat · 22/09/2015 19:53

No, I'm saying if it bothers you, then don't engage with it. You said you are a live and let live person so just hide it. I happen to disagree with you. You're perfectly entitled to your point of view though.

Autumnnights1 · 22/09/2015 19:54

yes very waring, nothing worse that a self-righteous do-gooder

DoJo · 22/09/2015 20:00

I just think that if you're going to get rid of a stigma you should show that all women from all walks of life have gotten them.

The viral nature of this kind of thing means that it is very hard to control how it is perceived - the initial hope of the writer who started the hashtag was to show 'the other side' to the abortion debate and specifically to demonstrate that plenty of people have positive experiences of abortion.

Had she been able to predict how quickly and effectively it would take off, she might have put a little more thought into how to make it more inclusive, but having proved that there is an online space for those who aren't ashamed or see their abortion as an entirely negative experience, hopefully it will open up the debate for those who are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum or at least give those who do feel more ambivalent than positive a sense that they are not alone.

araiba · 22/09/2015 20:16

seems a bit weird to be proud of having an abortion to me

its nothing to feel shameful about

but proud seems to be the wrong word on this occasion

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 22/09/2015 20:30

For some women it is a very difficult decision other women it is not it's just a procedure that needs to be done

That does not mean they are flippant about what happens to their bodies

DoJo · 22/09/2015 21:30

seems a bit weird to be proud of having an abortion to me

To be fair, I haven't actually seen anyone using the hashtag describing themselves as being 'proud' to have had an abortion - that word seems to come mostly from those who are criticising them for it, and therefore is their interpretation of how showing abortion in a positive light seems. Which just highlights the problem that the campaign is trying to address IMO - if women who don't feel ashamed are deemed to be 'proud' of having had an abortion just for talking about how it had a positive impact on their lives, then we are a long way from being able to talk about the subject without moral judgements shutting debate down.