Should children be encouraged to offer their seats to adults?

[cornflowers]

At ds's gymnatics class, the parents all wait upstairs and watch from a sort of balcony. There aren't enough seats for everyone, so unless you're slightly early (almost never happens in my case!) you can't be sure of a seat. A lot of parents bring other dc along with them, so there are often several children in seats while adults are left to stand. This week, one little boy (approx 3-4 yrs) was alternately sitting on the floor/standing but had put three soft toys on his seat. I'd had an exhausting day & my back was aching from standing up for so long, so I asked the dm of this child whether I could sit in the chair occupied by the soft toys. She said, "Sorry, no, we're using that." AIBU to think that small children can sit on their parents laps in situations like this, and that adults should be offered a seat?

Eh, depends.

If I dragged my kids to practice to get them all there early so we had a seat, I would not be inclined to make them give it up where the only alternative is my lap. While toys don't take priority over adults, you said yourself he was alternating between sitting and standing. That makes the seat his, for all intents and purposes. I wouldn't give it up to have my child drive me nuts crawling on and off my lap instead simply because an adult with poorer time management skills wanted it.

I assume that since you see the same group of parents each week, they know you're not disabled, nor do you have trouble standing. So in this situation, no. I would not give it up because presumably, there will be weeks where I'm standing and paying my dues for coming in later and wouldn't expect other people to give up their seats for me.

But for someone that was elderly or disabled, or even nicely explained they had trouble standing for whatever reason, yes I would have my child give it up (and if two spaces were needed, I'd give up my own) since the hierarchy of who deserves a seat varies depending on the situation at the time.

That said, growing up, when having family get togethers, we sat on laps or the floor if all seats were taken and an adult wanted it. Other times, adults sat on the floor and kids kept the couch. If grandma wanted a seat, we had best all get our ass off the chairs and let her pick.

I am very uncomfortable with the implied idea behind 'all children should give up seats to all adults in all situations' that children are less important than adults. Because I don't believe that, I don't make my children automatically give up seats to adults. If someone less able to stand (child or adult) needs a seat, I will, after giving up my own seat first where applicable, ask them to move/share a seat (they are 8 and 10 but quite small and slim) or stand.

Often, when I've been on public transport with my two, adults have offered them seats :) (The tube in London springs to mind - I have found Londoners, including busy commuter types, very helpful and friendly in general on my handful visits there over the last few years. )

In this particular situation, I would have moved the toys, of course, and if I had had a seat I would have taken the child onto my lap or given him my seat - but not because you are a Mighty Adult and therefore deserving of obsequious respect, but because you had asked for a seat and therefore felt the need for one, and if my small child wasn't on the seat all the time I would consider it unfair that he take one up.

Totally agree with Bulbasaur

Unless you had told me there was a specific need I wouldn't interrupt a child who was settled using the chair

I don't agree with this idea that a child sitting on the floor instead of a chair is going to have lifelong issues of inferiority because they moved to give an adult a chance to sit down. Most of us grew up in a time when it was considered basic good manners and we all survived in to adulthood. Is there anyone out there still under counselling because they were required to move once for great aunt Ethel? What happened that made children suddenly so much more precious than they were twenty years ago?

I can't believe that people think it's ok for an adult to stand while a chid uses a chair for its soft toys. Ridiculous. Selfish. Narcissistic.

Re public transport - If I've paid for a seat for my child, then no, I will not he giving it up for an adult not in need of it. It doesn't matter if the cost of the child's seat is less than the adults. I will have paid the legally required price and if another passenger considers that to be unfair they can take it up with the train company! I want my child to sit down on the train when possible.

I will, however, offer my seat to someone who seems to need it more than me.

In your situation OP, next time just move the toys yourself - toys and handbags do not need a seat!

I would have bent down to the toys and said "hey cuddly toys do you mind if I sit here please? No? Oh thank you very much" I then would have put them on the floor and sat down or if I was in a bad mood chucked them over the balcony. Done.
If it was a child I would have just sat on the floor or if I was in a bad mood chucked the child over the balcony (joke)

When I was a child, there were notices on buses saying children paid reduced fares on the basis that they gave up their seat if an adult needed it.

I am pretty damn sure the three cuddly toys did not have a hidden disability and I would have been quite forceful in telling the mother to remove the toys or I would. No way would I be standing while toys occupy a seat.

The adults should have been allowed to sit. Ya totally nbu. Can't believe the way we are heading.

I don't think that children should give up their seats because they are less important than adults. They should give up their seats because, usually, they are more able to stand.

Just like adults don't give up their place on a lifeboat because they are less important than children, but because, usually, they are more able to swim.

When I was a kid (40 years ago) children were always expected to offer their seats to adults, in fact Children generally were expected to show deference to adults.
That seems to be no longer taught in many homes and school can only do so much to address it.I think this lack of respect is the root of many problems of disruption in school.I am a sports coach and work with approximately 300 children, mostly aged between 5 and 9 every week.Whilst the majority of children continue to show respect for adults over the last 20 years there has been a definite increase in those who don't.It is such a pity because you really form opinions about the parents when some sibling groups are so well mannered and well-behaved, and others have no respect at all.

I would just remove the toys and sit down while politely saying 'I am just moving these as I need to sit down and they don't'
same that I will always tackle the selfish train/bus passengers who feel their bag,tablet,double bass needs a seat while I am standing (unless of course they HAVE paid for a seat )
I am very uncomfortable with the implied idea behind 'all children should not give up seats to adults in any situation' because adults are less important than children. - see how that looks selfish when reversed from what the above poster said.
no-one is 'more important than anyone else' but some have greater needs than others and they should get the seats and the others will feel the glow of a good deed done. I am nearly 70 but would give up a seat to anyone who finds standing on a moving vehicle (I find it OK for short distances and would avoid the rush hour) difficult/painful regardless of age

I am disabled and walk with a stick. I got on a train once which was pretty packed and there was only one seat I could see, which I gratefully took. A moment later the man who'd got on at the same time as us with his son (about 4yo) said very loudly to his son 'Darling, you could have had a seat, but the nasty lady didn't want you to have one', and to the passengers standing next to him 'Selfish woman, making herself comfortable while a child has to stand'. He then proceeded to moan to fellow passengers and his kid about how nasty and selfish I was. It was a VERY uncomfortable journey and by the time I got off the train I was in tears.

When DD was little she was taught to stand for adults and at 18, an adult herself, she still offers her seat to people. The chap on my train would probably think I was a harsh mother for bringing her up that way.

In my day, a child wouldn't have to wait to be asked. We were brought up to be respectful to adults, and would automatically give up a seat if it were needed. My children/grandchildren would do the same now.

Couldn't agree more, Brioche

I wouldn't expect a child (or anyone else) to give up their seat automatically for an adult.
But I'd be sympathetic if you had said your back hurt and I'd probably give you my own seat if necessary.

In that case, I'd have mentioned my back and point out that the chair was not actually being used, apart from the toys.

If it is a problem, though, and you frequently have back ache or can't find a seat, I'd suggest you purchase a camping folding stool and take it to the class.

SomeDizzyWhore18O4

I'd have answered loudly that I had mobility issues, and that maybe the father should ask all the other nasty people who were able and sitting to offer their own seats to the child.
Or make sure everyone saw the walking stick. And ask him what he thought that was for.

Once, on a train with DS (about 4) a woman sped past us to get the available seat (she had her reasons). But a young man immediately offered his seat to DS. That is what should happen.

You should have told him that his child is not the centre of the universe and to lay off with the comments

I judge parents who don't expect their children to move for adults (except on transport where it is a safety issue for young children only). I will always believe it to be rude and I think you look ridiculous to have a young child sitting down on a chair whilst adults are standing.

I have to mention that 9 years ago I took my day old baby carried in my arms, to a christingle service with my DH and older DC.
There, in a church, DH had to ask people if they would mind moving up (not getting up) so i could sit down with my baby.I was met with lots of tutting and muttering!

I think, in the main, it's usually reasonable to expect children to stand/sit on the floor in the situation in your OP. I think public transport is a bit different, as it may not always be easy for a child to stand. I would have let my DC sit on the tube, when they were younger, if there was only one seat, for example.

In this case, the woman was very unreasonable not to move the cuddly toys for you, though.

However, if this happens every week, I'd be bringing my own chair, if possible. I mean, if the other people there do not believe they should make their children stand for adults, there's nothing you can really do to make them.

What I notice is a huge change in generational attitudes. I'm in my 50s and was expected to stsnd for adults from around the age of 7 (and taught to stand when an adult entered a room and so on).

I was taught that "manners" were not about etiquette but about consideration for others. An excellent lesson to learn, IMO.

But there seems to be a much more selfish 'I know my rights' attitude nowadays. I sorry about how tbe next generation will be when their parents are elderly.

But maybe it's a MN thing: this can be aa very ageist forum.

I agree Multi. I think it is generational.