to think the legal system should not place white victims of sex crimes below Asians

[oldshilling]

www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

There has been a lot of news about certain Muslim men choosing to sexually abuse white girls rather than members of their own community, because of cultural differences making white girls often easier targets, and perhaps because perceptions of about non-Muslim women.

In this case, however, a Muslim man chose to sexually abuse Muslim girls, and was given a longer sentence on the basis that Muslim/Asian girls will suffer more than white girls, a decision that the Court of Appeal has confirmed.

AIBU to think that this is disgusting, particularly given the targeting of tens of thousands (at a minimum) of white girls by Muslim men.

Invented ?

Jasvinder Sanghera, chief executive of Karma Nirvana, a Leeds-based national charity which works with the survivors of honour based abuse, said the judgement provided “an injustice” to other victims of similar sexual abuse that are not from a South Asian community.

She said: “We feel that the ‘shame’ factor highlighted in this case is a prevalent and common feature for all victims of sexual abuse.

“We feel strongly that the judge should not be considering the marriageability prospects of the victims as a result of this abuse.”

Limited -

I'd say that 7 years isn't enough but I wondered what the recommended sentence was for a crime of this sort to see if he had been treated differently and more harshly than normal. I'm not sure the judge was saying that the abusers of Asian girls should get a harsher sentence as their suffering was worse or if he was just describing the damage that had been done to these girls and what it meant for them.

I think the individual harm suffered by each individual victim should impact on the sentence.

I think there should be a high baseline sentance and then harm should be accounted for to add time to it. Obviously in some circumstances this may be likely future harm.

The judge is not endorsing the views of this victims comunity/culture they are just confirming that they exist and yes it is a form of harm that someone from outside the comunity/culture would not experance. The girls themselves may not be bothered by their marriageability but if their comunity or a significant % of it is going to shun them or regard them in a certain way that wouldn't have occured had it not been for the perpetrators actions then that in itself is harmful to them.

I think all sorts of harm or likely harm should be taken into account no matter what factor is involved in theory if that happened no matter who you rape you could expect huge sentences

Mirror has similar story plus more reaction:

John Bird of The National Association for People Abused in Childhood said: “There is evidence that cultural differences in Asian communities can make it harder for victims to adjust back to life in the community later on – not that it’s easy for any victim of a sexual offence.”

Diana Nammi of the Iranian and Kurdish Women’s Rights Organisation said: “I think there’s truth in the argument that Asian girls can suffer greater consequences within their own communities. It’s a reality borne out by our experiences.”

Criticism by Jasvinder Sanghera of Karma Nirvana is quoted again, as is the NSPCC statement, which all journalists so far except you have taken to be criticism by the NSPCC.

All the papers have the story and the politicians are already wading in.
Let's see the TV tomorrow. If the story is a fake, it'll be found out by then.

PLEASE don't execute child abusers--such draconian moves would lead to a fall in cases being reported or prosecuted (and in the case of attacks by strangers, it might lead to an increase in children being killed after they are abused instead).

As for the OP's point--of course you are not being unreasonable to be shocked by this! I don't know what on earth the judge thought she was doing.

What's really scary about this is that it sends out the message to vile men that their offense is less "bad" (and will result in fewer penalties should they get caught) if they focus their attentions on girls from communities that are stereotyped as allowing "loose" female behavior. This is already a behavior that is common among abuse men, tragically.

It encourages the idea that it is somehow more OK to prey on white working-class girls or Afro-Caribbean girls. Like "Their parents don't care that much what they get up to, know what I mean?"

I'd be very concerned if anyone was deemed a lesser victim because of their cultural background. I was molested by a white guy when I was 8 years old, police did nothing and apparently the father was guilty of similar (found this out much layer). But my religious and cultural background was such that I was not allowed to have a boyfriend in my teens. I tried once until dad went over to his place and threatened to beat the crap out of him. Yet it wasn't uncommon for my friends and I to get propositioned by groups of young Muslim teens when we went clothes shopping in the city because they assumed (wrongly in our case) that western teens were fair game. Probably didn't help that we looked similar to them with our darker colouring.

Yanbu. However I'm also not crying into my porridge about his sentence. The thought behind it is wrong though imo.

I think his and every other child sex abusers sentence is worth crying over, fucking pathetic for a crime of that magnitude. If we can't bring back burning at the stake execution for peadophiles, we should at least be throwing them in with the general prison population for life without parole. Although I get that harsher sentences all round aren't in the power of individual judges.

Yeah agreed lurker, but y' know what I meant.

toby yes I know you didn't mean it like that, sorry if it came across otherwise.

Horrified by this story. How can a judge implicitly support the idea that virginity has any bearing on the worth of a girl or woman? It also seems to me to validate the belief held by the Rotherham rape gangs, that it was OK to abuse white girls because they are already 'trash' with no marriage 'value'.

All rape and sexual abuse is appalling and deserves the most savage punishment. And we should all be equal in the eyes of the law.

I hope this judge gets ripped to shreds

I hope this judge gets ripped to shreds

I don't, I hope the judge and other judges continue to allow additional harm to be taken into account and use it to increase sentences, no matter how acceptable or what type of harm happens or is likely to happen

if the quote that 'the victims fathers' were concerned about the future marriage prospects for the daughters...' is correct -

the children are not only crime victims, but regarded as worth less by their parents.

beyond belief.

I thought that it was a basic principle that we are all treated equally by the law.

Knowing how your comunity is likely to respond to a sexual assult or rape and the impact that response is likely to have on you is not the same as thinking your worth has disappeared

It's a case of unintended consequences on the judiciary's part: the logical behaviour is to choose your victim more carefully.

Sentences should be tougher all round. As a crime it is not taken seriously enough by the courts.

Plays into the hands of UKIP.

"I thought that it was a basic principle that we are all treated equally by the law."

But, does anyone know if this man actually got a longer sentence than other similar cases where the victims are not Asian? I need to go and try and read the facts of this case without the typical sensationalist spin being given by the media.

"the children are not only crime victims, but regarded as worth less by their parents.

beyond belief."

Well indeed,
"Jamal Mohammed Raheem-ul-Nasir, 31, carried out the offences in 2010 and 2011 when his victims were aged nine and 14 years old."

So basically they are now presumably 14 and 18, and they are being told by their parents that their value as brides is diminished.

And the judiciary has endorsed this medieval thinking.

"But, does anyone know if this man actually got a longer sentence than other similar cases where the victims are not Asian? "

Bambambini, when sentencing you have 'aggravating factors' (things which make the sentence longer) and 'mitigating factors (those which make it shorter).

These are in the guidelines.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Final_Sexual_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_content_web1.pdf

The judge said what the aggravating factors were. You can never directly compare sentences because there are so many different factors to consider. But in the judge's own words, the fact that the victim is Asian/Muslim is an aggravating factor.

If the community is treating these young women badly or ostracising them in any way because they believe them to be worth less then that is emotional/psychological abuse so why isnt more being done about this.

(There is also a thread on this in Feminism Chat.)

The discussion over in Feminism Chat has turned into an online petition. Please sign it if you think rape victims should be equal in the eyes of the law.

Link

Aggravating circumstances should mean those committed by the criminal, not by the family and community of the victims.

Worthless without their virginity
That misogynist crap is not acceptable in 21st century Britain.
Those poor kids: Raped by a perv, then rejected as damaged goods by their community.

We must stop all victim-blaming. The rapist bears 100% of the guilt & shame

Heavier sentencing is just accepting the victim-blaming.
Btw, even if raping a Muslim child carries a heavier sentence, that's meaningless if the criminal knows the victim will almost never report it.