to think having a DD who likes dinosaurs or a DS who likes princesses is not something to be 'proud' of?

[MaltaVestrit]

ok, it is slightly FB related.

A friend (someone I used to know but don't see face to face now) has just posted 'so proud that all DDs birthday presents have come from the boys aisle' and it has really pissed me off, for several reasons:

1. I hate this competitive anti gender stereotyping crap
2. surely by calling it the 'boys aisle' you are shooting your own argument in the foot - assuming the point you are trying to make is that there shouldn't be 'boys' and 'girls' toys.

but mainly - what is there to be 'proud' of? Should I be less proud of my DD because she likes dolls? or of my DS because he likes tractors and dinosaurs?

Don't get me wrong, I am proud of my DC for many reasons but how the hell can you be 'proud' that they like a certain type of toy?! Be proud that your DD can list several types of dinosaur by all means, be proud that your DS has just passed his ballet exams - but to just be proud that they are interested in those things in the first place? ODFOD!!

So AIBU to think this is not something to be 'proud' of?

(yes I know IABU to get this annoyed about something on FB, but its not the first like this I've seen)

I hate the whole concept of gender specific toys/items but have mellowed with age and experience.
When DD1 was little I was a tiny bit like the mum in the facebook page (although I wouldn't have posted it on fb and I wasn't proud of her for it because I had engineered it)... I did deliberately buy her gender neutral or 'traditional boy' toys (and refused to buy her a doll until she showed an interest in having one my mum thought that was terrible - I was neglecting her!).

I thought everyone was now more clued up about the whole thing...it had become a movement and the pink little princess' prams etc were now rapidly becoming history. But maybe not...
Recently I saw a toddler boy rahhhing in the face of another toddler (girl) who didn't like it. Boy's mum was telling him to stop (not very effectively) and said you know 'girls don't like dinosaurs'
(I really had to bite my tongue - if it had been my DD I couldn't have - I really wanted to say nobody likes someone screaming in their face nothing to do with fucking dinosaurs!!! )

My dds were like chalk and cheese growing up.

Uuuf, it sounds like the poor child is really being taken into account for her presents and I speak as one who always preferred "boys" toys, back in the day when all little girls were given things like manicure sets.

I hate barbies and everything they stand for, but my dd was very feminine and I believe that a present should be chosen with that person in mind, so I got her barbies.

Dud
I mean the poor child is NOT really being taken into account

unlucky oh that is a whole other bug bear of mine - that somehow its ok for boys to be rowdy because they 'are just being boys'. I don't mind my DC running around and being a bit loud but if its upsetting other DC then then need to stop to be considerate to others, not because the girls might not like it I am very definite when mine are being dinosaurs to say 'that child doesn't want you being a dinosaur right in their face' I would certainly never claim it was because the child didn't like dinosaurs!

I have 2 friends - one with a DS and one with a very quiet DD - its awkward as hell having them together as friend with the DS just lets him do whatever as 'he's a boy' and expects other friend's DD to lump it and to toughen up.

It annoys me that this exists really. Firstly saying the boys aisle does throw her argument off a bit. But I am cross that there is a distinction really. I've had it a lot with my superhero, dinosaur, minion loving DD. She wanted an avengers shirt, like daddy has, so I got her one in the boys bit, as the girls ones are horrendously pink and just not as good. She was with me when I bought it. As she clutched it to herself with a massive smile to the till, the salesperson said to me quietly "you know this is for boys."
Mine also has a dinosaur backpack she adores and sleeps with a plethora of dinosaurs, reptiles and a disney princess.
I do think it is easier in society to have a dinosaur loving DD than a doll loving DS. Its wrong, but its the truth

Atenco I hated barbies/dolls/princesses/ballet/etc as a child and I object to the idea that that somegow makes me 'less feminine'.

I agree the point of presents is to please the receiver though.

BarbarianMum "Children who reject stereotypes get shat on from a great height by society at large after about the age of 2" - as the mother of a girl and 2 boys I would say that is not true at all. Boys who reject gender stereotypes get shat on from a great height by society at large after about the age of 2 - probably (though wearing fairy wings will be universally applauded in some circles til about age 4 :o being sensitive and quiet probably won't...)

Girls are positively encouraged to reject female sterotypes and wear gender neutral or "boys" clothing, play with construction toys, and aspire to be nuclear physicists by a large chunk of fb society and sneered at and ridiculed if they show a talent for languages, art, sewing and cooking - those are talents to be pushed under the carpet - you're only allowed to boast on fb if your boys and your girls are excelling in traditionally male areas and have traditionally male hobbies and tastes....

I appreciate this isn't the case across all of society btw :o But a lot of women of a certain age (my age - early 30s on to probably early 60s) and level of education (degree educated) at least seem to think it is their duty to sneer at little girls who like to cook and sew - I bloody wish they'd engage their brains and think about the fact that what they are really saying is that only "boys stuff" is valuable and girls are only approved off if they act the way boys are traditionally "supposed" to. Ironically they also fail to expand this attitude to really wanting their sons to embrace female stereotypes, beyond perhaps smiling indulgently at the odd bit of dress up as a toddler or maybe doing a little bit of baking occasionally.

Ilikedmyoldusernamebetter - no need for me to add anything, you have said it brilliantly - I totally agree.

I wasnt into girl toys i liked them but i also liked my boy cousins skeletrik and evil kenevil jump thing i wasnt allowed one cos i was a girl I vowed to let any girls I had to play with whatever they wanted i grew up in the 70s and if you were not a proper girl it seemed a terrible thing. I usedto watch fantastic4 and xmen cartoons step dad would take the piss about boy telly

Yanbu mass ugly contradicting herself.

I think it is true that nowadays boys largely get the worse deal on this kind of thing. Goes back to the point made at the beginning of the thread, that "male" occupations and hobbies are more highly valued in general.

But while I agree that "girls" and "boys" toys largely have equal value, I do wince when every single time MIL visits (4/5 times a year), she brings my ds something to do (puzzle, construction kit, book of things to do) and my dd something to wear (tutu, hairband, jewellery, once a book about fancy clothes!). If she bought dd a Barbie at least she could play a decent game with that! Boys just don't have accessories marketed at them in the same way.

I think in MN what sometimes comes across as anti-pink/Barbie/princesses is often more about the fear that their daughters are going to be socialised to be only interested in appearances.

(no, I would never raise this with MIL and I smile sweetly and say thank you)

I hate parents who won't let their girls play with dolls to make a point. It is not so much being anti stereotyping but not letting their child make these small choices and treating their child as an extension of themselves. I find it sad when adults impose principles and ideas which are impossible for a small child to understand

YANBU, but having said that I do think that having children who don't buy into the worst elements of gender stereotyping is definitely something to be proud of.

who don't buy into the worst elements of gender stereotyping is definitely something to be proud of.

I don't think it's got anything to do with that. I didn't 'buy in' to the worst elements of gender stereotyping by liking pink glittery tat, I just liked it. My sister just liked swords and toolkits. Both of us are committed feminists!

It's possibly something to be proud of if the child in question has made an informed decision for themselves, though to reject all 'girls' toys isn't an especially great decision, it's still buying into gender stereotyping.

Yanbu

I was always called a tom boy as a child and I still love getting muddy and climbing up things. I've given up fighting Still it irritates me when people are disparaging about girls who like pink, glittery things and like sitting nicely doing craft. There's nothing superior about a girl if she likes playing with dinosaurs whilst sucking a worm, or wearing a feather tiara whilst singing and dancing.

Same with boys. My boys loved cars and guns but showed no interest in dolls or coloring. I wasn't much different at the same age so I understand. If a boy loves a doll and dancing then that is no better or worse. I supose what irritates me is the simplification. A girl or boy can love cars and still be gentle and kind and they can love princess dresses and mechanics.

I must admit that it also annoys me when parents go on about being proud of their independently minded teens. Who dress alternatively, reject all chart music, suport labour and are staunch atheists to the point of being evangelical about it. Uh like their parents? I will have proof that my son is an independent thinker when he joins the Conservative party, insists on wearing the latest fashion and adore Rita Ora

Yes, MsMargaretCarter, that's exactly it. My MIL was the same initially with DD1 (hairbands, bracelets etc), but more exposure to both girls and their likes and dislikes and my gentle reaction to thibgs has led to a change in what she gives.

I strongly resist the passive-quiet-girl-is-ideal that I see being pushed on girls quite a lot. And sometimes that comes across as "girls toys are bad", but it isn't what I mean at all. I just think children should be running, playing, doing, getting grubby etc.

Ilikedmyoldusernamebetter has put it brilliantly. Also maybebaby.

Sneering is the word I'd use for the women who made nasty comments about my DD wanting to go and look in the window of a bridal shop because she liked the dresses. They were literally aghast. One of them said to me "does she run about and jump in puddles and things too?" I said that she did , of course. She replied "Oh thank god, that's not quite so bad then" as if I was getting her a spray tan and putting her in high heels.

The stupid thing is we are gay mums. My wife was always a complete tom boy and has made it to the top in a very male dominated profession. She has absolutely no issue with Dd being more into girly things....she can see that is what she enjoys and respects that just as we would if she were into cars and trains or whatever.

My oldest was a girly girl through her own choice. She embraced the world of pink with enthusiasm and if it sparkled too..then it was perfect!

She's now 17 and dresses in mainly black. All the time. It's like living with someone in permanent mourning.

Youngest is quite frankly odd. She has dolls, cars, trains and adores Spiderman. She loves red and really doesn't think much of pink unless it's an in your face luminous pink.

The last thing I posted on fb about my youngest was when she emptied my kitchen cupboard and tidied it whilst lecturing me about the five bottles of cider she found in there.

Ds2 (6yo) is happy to play with barbies, my little pony, princess stuff, lego, star wars, pirates, spiderman, avengers... he can often be spotted leaping about the living room in princess dress under a Harry Potter robe, waving a wand in one hand, light sabre in another, and doing the Darth Vader breathing. It can be very amusing watching his antics and the stories he comes up with, but as far as boys toys v girls toys? I'm not fussed as long as he is enjoying himself.

Ds1 (9yo) will happily play any of that with ds2, but the stuff he deems as "girly" he will only play at home, he wouldn't do that at school. His choice.

My ex gets irate when the dcs (both boys) play with anything even remotely "girly" and demands they play with "boy stuff." I've heard him say on more than one occasion "Boys don't play with dolls!" to which I responded "Oh, really? So how do you explain the Action Man doll you played with for ages when you were a child?" (thank you MIL! ) Lots of sputtering and muttering about how Action Man is "different, because that's for BOYS." Twat. It does irritate me that he puts those limits on them (which I ignore for the most part anyway), as I don't want them to feel they can't make whatever choice they want.

My dd (when she was young, she's an adult now) detested pink, but loved dresses and dolls and all that. She just didn't like the colour pink (much to my disappointment, as I love the colour). So she'd wear a lovely dress, matching hair ties, sandals, and then dangle upside down from the trees outside or play in the mud with the dolls.

I don't see that it's anything to be "proud" of, so YANBU. It's just personal choices and what they're interested in. I didn't "influence" it, and it's not an accomplishment, so why would I be proud of it?? It's just not that big a deal IMO.

We had neighbours years ago when DS1 was little who had four boys. Neighbours on the other side had two girls. The parents were utterly paranoid about their boys coming into contact with any "girls'" toys to the point where they would check what toys were out on the shared lawn before letting the boys out to play.

I got a lecture from the dad for buying my own DS a toy kitchen (it wasn't even pink) and a pushchair. Mum of the girls got a telling off because while she was babysitting the boys at her house she allowed one of them to put on a necklace of pink beads. The dad went proper shouty crackers about that one. He was in like flynn when we got DS one of those crazy coupe things - that was ok apparently.

IME kids will choose and make the toys that appeal to them at that moment. Sometimes its dinosaurs, sometimes pink beads.

YANBU. I might try to resist Barbie because I really don't kick their ridiculous shape, but daresay is give in!

Kick?! Like I meant.