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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder how school failed to notice that DS had shit himself?

100 replies

StormyLlewelyn · 16/09/2015 19:30

DS is in Year Two at school and is under ongoing assessment for ASD, school are aware of this and are also aware that he has issues with seeking assistance if he is in difficulty.

All the way home from school today I could smell shit. I checked the buggy wheels, checked everyone's shoes, checked the baby's nappy, couldn't find the source. We got home and I could still smell it. I began the usual getting home chores and unpacked the PE bags to wash kit. DS had come home in his PE kit as he'd been to football club so his bag had his uniform in. As soon as I opened the bag I was hit with the smell. The bag contained his school pants, caked in shit on both the outside and inside. His undies, also caked in shit, and his white shirt with shit on one sleeve.

I took DS upstairs and checked him over. His backside and tops of his thighs were covered in dried on shit. I found out from him that he'd been desperate for the loo at lunchtime and didn't make it in time. In true DS fashion, he didn't speak up (which I've spoken to him about. Again.).

Lunchtime was four hours before I picked him up which means he's sat in his mess for four hours. Mess visible from the outside of his clothes. In these four hours he has been in the care of the lunch time staff, the playground staff, his teachers (two in the classroom), three teaching assistants, the school-employed staff who run the football club, and the school office staff. He has also gotten changed into his PE kit in the classroom twice (once for PE and once for football club).

AIBU to wonder how the fuck no one noticed he was covered in shit and stinking to the high heavens? I've had to send DH out for Sudocrem as he has sores on his skin from sitting in it for so long.

I'm so angry and upset and not sure what to do from here. I've emailed a complaint to the school and requested an urgent meeting with the headteacher because, as far as I'm concerned, it's neglect. Part of me wants to keep him off tomorrow until after I've spoken to the headteacher about it but I can see that making the situation worse.

Any advice or grips?

OP posts:

Blackcloudsbrightsky · 16/09/2015 20:30

I agree that the post by maxxy was harsh but at the risk of my arse being flamed what is the ASD relevance to continence?

I grew up with a brother with autism who was potty trained at 2 and I don't think ever had an accident; I was NT and wasn't

laffymeal · 16/09/2015 20:31

I think it's more to do with the fact the OP's DS cannot speak up when he needs the toilet.

Owllady · 16/09/2015 20:34

Can you Google blacksky? It can be caused by development being delayed or associated learning difficulties
Communication and social difficulties (ie not wanting or being unable to ask)
Sensory issues (ie liking the feeling of it)
Issues with gut and digestion
He's not doing it on purpose and he shouldn't be set the same bargepole as an nt child

I'm not saying what is going on with stormys son. He obviously requires more support. It's not acceptable that he's not getting that

Blackcloudsbrightsky · 16/09/2015 20:37

I'm not implying for a moment he would be doing so on purpose; I think it would be unusual in the extreme for any child to soil themselves on purpose. I genuinely wasn't sure what the link was between continence and autism and while I can google, it seemed sensible to ask on here given that the discussion centred around this.

Original poster

StormyLlewelyn · 16/09/2015 20:37

He's generally continent but he has accidents now and then of varying degrees because he has problems with urgency. To him there is no difference between vaguely/mildly needing the toilet and being absolutely desperate for the toilet. He hates the sensation of having to keep it in so as soon as he needs the toilet he is instantly on edge and, mentally, is bursting for the toilet. We're working on it with him but it sometimes results in accidents. Usually they're mild, a dribble of wee on his pants or skids in his undies, but he has had bigger ones including a couple at school. He has issues with wiping too as he hates the feel of toilet roll.

OP posts:

Blackcloudsbrightsky · 16/09/2015 20:37

I can understand that. My brother was the same with loo roll - used wet wipes.

yeOldeTrout · 16/09/2015 20:39

Is he very red and sore?

Owllady · 16/09/2015 20:40

Oh I don't want to go into detail blacksky, but I think it can be done on purpose for sensory reasons!

Have you had support off incontinence services stormy? They're not all great though, but.might be worth seeing them too.

Katinkka · 16/09/2015 20:44

I bet it was noticed. I also have had this problem with my oldest son who has autism. His usual carer at school went away and we had a temp. She was supposed to be caring for him all the time so no excuse for not noticing. His bum got so bad just from the hours spent in school he could barely walk. I still see this woman locally and still give her the hard stare and it was about ten years ago.

He had to have time off to recover. She just didn't want to clean him. Why take the job then? Stupid bitch. Grr still angry!

MrsTedCrilly · 16/09/2015 20:49

I used to work in a primary school and only remember one child who smelled of poo once, there was never a general pong! I taught in the IT room so all years from reception to year 6. I'm not saying it's not true, just wonder why I haven't had the same experience! I can smell a fly's fart usually

It's really strange that no-one picked up on it OP, surely the smell was overpowering.

Original poster

StormyLlewelyn · 16/09/2015 20:55

I should hopefully hear from the headteacher in the morning and can go from there. I've taken photographs of his clothing and his skin to show them when we have our meeting and I'm going to call his assessment team tomorrow to get this added to his file as an example of him not speaking up.

OP posts:

Keeptrudging · 16/09/2015 20:56

I've taught many pupils with ASD. Almost all had issues around toileting, it's something all staff should be on the lookout for. Holding poo in for days, to the point that some needed medical intervention, either they didn't like/were scared of the sensation or liked the feeling, difficult to pinpoint sometimes. Children who didn't recognise the signals their body was sending them, or who didn't recognise that they had poo in their pants/they were wet. Children who were terrified of school toilets - unexpected noises from hand-dryers/toilets flushing/doors slamming and needed lots of reassurance/comforting to be able to use them. Social stories and symbols can help, but also clear, understanding adult support is generally needed, which is what I would be asking school to put in place. Unfortunately parents have to often push/fight/continually email and pester until something gets done. The system sucks.

I've changed my fair share of children who have had accidents, most staff would want to treat pupils like they would their own, but there are exceptions - hopefully this is not one of them but a genuine oversight.

cece · 16/09/2015 21:57

DS2 is like this. He also denies he has done it so even if the staff can smell it and ask him he says he hasn't. After that there isn't much they can do, as they aren't allowed to check his pants.

TBH in reception he managed to poo so it went on the floor and it got trodden all over the classroom by the other children. They still didn't know it was him as he point blank said it wasn't. When he got home his pants, shorts and socks were covered in it.

amarmai · 16/09/2015 22:57

retired teacher here to tell you some teachers are really good at the 3 little monkeys act- that way they do not do the dirty jobs. Like a TA i had once upon a time , when a child with spina bifida who had to wear diapers joined our class , she immediately informed me she would not be changing him. Is it also in nursery schools that staff are not allowed to clean cc? My gs could not walk when he was left in his poo for a 1/2 day at nursery. Even carrying him home he was in pain. OP when you go for that meeting do not allow them to get away with the 3 little monkeys song and dance act. When they moved the child sitting next to your son and when the child on the carpet was shushed, that's only twice it was brought directly to their attention by other cc.Shame on them.

ouryve · 16/09/2015 23:04

Maxxy, you are joking, are you? My eldest with ASD is nearly 12 and still can't speak up about some things, particularly when surrounded by relative strangers, as the OP's kid will be, at this time of year.

And DS1 is crap at wiping and DS2 is doubly incontinent and in nappies and, somehow, despite my house sometimes smelling of pee (which it is, tonight, boak) it's usually pretty clear when he's done a shit.

Original poster

StormyLlewelyn · 16/09/2015 23:10

I think school will try to say that there are 28 kids in the class, that the teacher can't watch them all (even though there are two teachers and at least three TAs), that DS needs to speak up. All the usual things. Which is fair enough but they were made aware of his issues around seeking help and other children tried bringing it to the teachers attention but were ignored.

DH has said to keep him home tomorrow until school have had a chance to look into exactly what happened, he doesn't want to trust him into their care until they can assure us they have a clear plan for managing his main issues.

OP posts:

annandale · 16/09/2015 23:14

Your poor ds. It sounds as if the school has no idea how to deal with this. I hope they will say this to you and ask for your ideas.

If you wrote a social story for this to use at home, do you think the school would support you by reading it with him, or does he not have any special support yet?

BlackeyedSusan · 16/09/2015 23:22

I would keep him off with an explantaion that a) he is too ill to come to school due to skin damage caused by their failure to deal with his accident. and b) that you can not be sure they will fulfil their duty of care and adequately care for him in school.

keep all written correspondence. I believe that these things will come in useful

ring the school nurse and visit gp/ nurse to get it recorrded. they may also be able to refer you to relevent help.

BlackeyedSusan · 16/09/2015 23:24

bull shit the teacher can not watch them all. teacher's have managed to track down and locate the producer of random puddles, organise clean up, change child, with classes of more than thirty and with no other adult available.

MythicalKings · 17/09/2015 06:47

That was many years ago, Susan. When I was teaching infants in the 70s that was the case. But safeguarding regulations have changed and two adults need to be present, plus the child has to "consent". However, we weren't allowed to leave the rest of the class unsupervised even then, so had to wait until a TA was available.

We also weren't allowed to just change DCs. If a DC denied having an accident, despite all the evidence, we were not allowed to force them to be changed, we had to send for a parents.

I hope you are able to find out how this happened, OP.

lavendersun · 17/09/2015 07:08

Poor lad OP. I don't know any teachers who would ignore this either even if they had only a remote incline of something.

DD has spent most of the last 6 years on movicol, in Yr 1 and 2 she would often leak poo. She never admitted anything but her lovely teachers were aware and dealt with it wonderfully.

I remember when I first went into school to explain it and her teacher said 'please don't worry Mrs Lavender, I am a mother and a grandmother, I have a nose for these things'.

Best of luck with the school.

lavendersun · 17/09/2015 07:10

inkling, thank you phone .

spoonfulofgoodness · 17/09/2015 07:55

'I don't believe no one noticed it. I bet each teacher ignored it hoping the next would deal with it.'

What a horrible thing to say. I simply do not think that is the case. I don't think YABU but your son does need to speak up for himself and the teacher will be upset that they missed this. To say that they ignored it is disgusting though PP

Keeptrudging · 17/09/2015 08:03

Most teachers could expect to get a grilling from management if they were under suspicion of ignoring this. My ex HT would have wiped the floor with a teacher who treated a child like that.

Fairylea · 17/09/2015 08:09

Are people even reading the ops posts? Her son is undergoing assessment for asd. He has special needs. He can't be expected to behave the same way as a "normal" child and speak up when he needs the toilet. As others have said a lot of children with asd have toilet issues and will need significant help with either recognising they need the toilet or changing and wiping themselves especially at this age.

Op I'm really sorry to hear about your son. The school does have a duty of care and things like this shouldn't be happening.

My son is 3.5 and has severe autism and has no awareness at all of when he needs to go for a pee or a poo and also has an extreme phobia of hand dryers and toilets so as yet I have been completely unable to even approach toilet training (it's something our paediatrician said to leave for now and will help us with as his communication improves). Any school he goes to will need to provide help in this regard and as such it is being addressed in his ehcp plan (statement of special needs).

No child should spend time sitting in their own poo in school. I don't believe the teacher didn't realise. It's pretty easy to recognise the smell of poo when it's been squashed and smeared over clothes!

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