school football team, anyone know the rules? AIBU (long)

[MsJamieFraser]

Sorry its going to be a long one so as to not drip feed.

Ds Y5, has been picked for his school football team, however was then told today that he is 1 of 3 subs and so this will mean he will play 2 school football games every term

7 boys will get a permanent place each week, (same boys every week) the games consist of 2 x 14min matches each week.

Ds has been told if he "proves" himself he will get more play time.

Ds has came home disappointed, and is saying how can I prove myself being a sub every 3 weeks (he may not even get a game when he attends) and is upset, hes also confused about the message the school is giving him, as a boy in his class has been given a permanent place who is known as a bad pupil (warnings, kept in at play time etc...)

Ds is a model pupil,(gets start of the week multiple times, HT award, pupil awards buddy awards etc) he has represented his school and county is many sporting events, (football, swimming. tennis, hockey, and has won each individual competition for the school) he is also a signed academy footballer

He attends the schools football training without fail,(every week) yet two boys who have been given a permanent place don't attend at all, and loudly state they would rather play on their xbox. (they do as the boys who ds is talking about, are in ds non signed football team and we are good friends with the parents) (ds, plays football for two teams, on a Saturday and Sunday)

Now back story me and dh run a U10's football team we are both registered coaches with the FA, what the school is doing goes against everything what the FA and grassroots stand for. I'm also worried about the message that ds has been told he needs to "prove" himself!

Im also concerned about the message ds has been told that 7 other boys are better than him (they maybe, but a 9 year old according to FA and grassroots rules) should NEVER be told this, also where is the TEAM spirit in this, It has already caused a divide in arguments between the boys who have a close friendship outside of the school football world)

I've also looked at the fixture list, so if ds plays his games, he will play in the semi final but not the final.

Ds is saying he does not know if he wants to play, I'm also worried about childcare as me and dh works FT and GP will have to pick ds up at the venue where the football is at, ds has also been told he will fill in for the boys who are sick/injured but again this has made him upset as he's the fall back guy, but yet is not good enough to play for the team...

I am just worried about the message that ds is getting, because who and what does he need to "prove" Ds has asked me to speak to the HT but I am unsure as I don't want to be known as that parent... but yet I dislike the message ds is getting.

It also can't be because he is already a footballer, as the whole team and footballers and in youth league teams.

Also I am not the only one who is unhappy, seen the other sub parents today, who feel exactly like I do, and one is wanting to pull her child out of the school team.

At u12 there are far too many coaches who do this.
Ds2 played for an amazing club a couple of seasons ago though- they had a team in every division and wouldn't turn anyone away. They had 8 u9 teams and had a strict rotation 12.5 minutes then sub, no matter what.

There are decent clubs out there that's not all about 1 or 2 players charging down the pitch and scoring.
It should be about development, getting the kids to understand how the game work.
Sadly there are far too many "win at all cost" coaches and whilst they may win games, they don't actually learn anything.

That's why, I believe, the FA rules were changed in terms of competitive football- when ds1 started all teams except the u7 were in a competitive league so even at 8, there were kids who hardly got any time on the pitch because the coach wanted to win the league.

Balletgirl- if by any chance you're in north London/Herts then pm me and I'll give you the details of a lovely inclusive club.

I can see why you are concerned, OP. But I'm baffled about all this fuss over a game that's meant to be fun.

When did children's football become so serious? And why?

These kids are 9? So basically a kid who just wants to play for the school team but doesn't play for an academy or out of school has zero chance of being on the team at all? That seems so wrong to me. What about children who have never had those opportunities for whatever reason?

Aw mythical you have no idea how serious some coaches take it, our team we do it by the book... Boys get subbed by their strip number so 1-3 gets subbed one week, 3-7 the next and then 8-9 the week after the only one who doesn't get subbed I our keeper. We really as a club and coaches are really strict when it comes to fair play. Most clubs are tbh.

I know each and every single one of these boys, and their families, I'm trying not to give too much info away, every boy on that team plays for a team outside school, some play for our team /club, others play for a "rival" club. They are all good mates and because they all live locally it's not unheard of that are knocking on each other's doors to go out for a kick about.

So I don't think it's about some kids getting a game.

*not getting a game/play football.

These kids are 9? So basically a kid who just wants to play for the school team but doesn't play for an academy or out of school has zero chance of being on the team at all?

No the whole point is they should be able to take part and at rolling subs! You're not meant to have 'the team' all decided like this.

someome said up thread it's awful for their DD getting picked for the B team all the time. What's wrong with playing for the B team? Or the C or D team?? You get all the benefits of training and being in a team and match time, whilst playing against other teams of similar ability?

I played for the 3rd xi hockey and then moved up to the 2nd xi. I loved playing in both those teams. I'd have been totally out of my depth playing against 1st xi teams. In fact I think I probably preferred being in the thirds because I was a solid player there, rather than being one of the worst in the 2nds!

The school seems pretty reasonable to me. Your ds gets to play now and again but it seems they want to have their strongest team and don't think he is part of that. You've already said he's represented him at other stuff, let this go. He doesn't have to be the star at everything.

Well we can't really judge unless we can see how good your son is tbh. What position does he play? Are there people in his position who are better than him? I certainly don't agree with this idea that he is permanently on the subs bench. The coach doesn't sound great. This business about proving yourself might have been a throwaway remark- who knows. What I don't like is the idea that pupils who are 'bad' in school shouldn't be allowed to play in the school team. Often these pupils behave like angels on the football pitch. I used to run a school football team and fairness was my mantra. Everyone who trained got a chance on the pitch. On the other hand the best players always had a full game (small village school).
I feel sorry for your son in the middle of all this. Listen to what he wants to do.

Has OP said how the permanent boys were selected? Maybe 'proving' himself means enthusiasm and reliability in this specific context, not just overall ability elsewhere. He hasn't proven himself enthusiastic & a good team worker and reliable in this team yet, has he?

No local club that DS's tried (attended training sessions at least) was run the way OP describes.

DS is the weakest of 3 goalies available, but he's on the pitch the whole time when he does get in a match :).

Wow, MsJamie, that is a lot of football for your ds! Glad he's enjoying it so much :)

I think your original question was around whether this was normal for school teams and maybe how to tackle this with school. I think you need to use the information you relay above about your DS conversation with your DH. How it's making him feel, but more importantly "what" he needs to do in the context of proving himself. If I am being honest I think that the coach has just said it to fob him off, in the hope he, as a child, won't ask the question. But that's the thing that rankles with your son, and that's maybe what you need to focus on with the school. They need to be clear that where they bring someone in to coach that the person they pick is able and supported by staff in school to deliver not only training but treat the children in an appropriate way. Sadly I think there are many underlying reasons why some kids get picked for teams, and you mention some in your post, and for kids it's hard to understand these adult politics, that's hard. Good luck.

Maybe the school give the opportunity to others who might otherwise get no football at all? If they know your ds gets so much, that might be why they've put him down as sub, to let others have a chance?

At ds's junior school everyone who wanted to be picked for the squad attended training/trials then the squad was announced. Only squad members were then allowed to continue attending.

had a word with the school coach who confirmed that it was going to be what ds said, I put forward to him that if they had been picked for the team, then why does only 3 boys have to "prove" themselves... if they are a team why aren't they being treated fairly, he said he is giving it based on ability... I told him I was not happy about this message he was giving him... he went onto say that he had 40 kids wanting to be on the football team and that he could not give everyone of them a place.

I agreed with this and said however he did not have 40 kids on the football team as HE had 10 kids, 10 kids that he picked, and put on the school website!, yet have told 3 of those 10 that they needed to prove to him to be better footballers... he said again well yes, I am playing my best players, but if they prove to me they will get more game time. I again said your not understanding what I am saying, as a parent I am not happy that a teacher is telling 9/10 year old boys that some are better than them, and that in order to get game time they need to prove to you who isn't even at training! I also stated I did'n t like him playing the kids of each other in this way as it went against the schools ethos, he ignored this and said the school football was not educational nor did he have to be in the "guidelines"...

at the end however he did say he will try and make it "fair"

I have never has a issue with ds being a sub, it was the message I felt really strongly about that he was given to the team

dh on the other hand agreed that it should be based on ability (not that he agreed with his opinion) and said it might bring the subs along... he just said the coach was trying his best.

Ds has came home today, and said they had a football meeting and that it is now decided that they are going down to 8 players.... and dh now blaming me as he said I over thought it.

We have had a argument as I said I can't have ds upset and asking me to speak to the school head and not raise it, when I feel quite strongly about it, but nor could I be blamed for a grown man spitting out his dummy, because if any one of those kids are ill, then he has no sub, which will be the case in the next few weeks and some kids wont be at the games for a few reasons.

Dh said I should feel bad, because it might mean ds who has now decided he wants to be in the team, might not be on the tea, I've said I will be glad as the whole thing has caused me to have a huge headache, and I wont change my opinion because I disagree with the message that a teacher is sending to young children.

balletgirl, the boys attended trials, its how they were picked for the team.

Maybe he was trying to tell you that, although your ds is a good player, he isn't as good as the others who made the team.

How is this different to all the parents who make a fuss when their child isn't picked for the starring roles in the school play?

At our school they all get a part, fairenuff, it may be large, it may be small etc... but they get a part, and I am sorry but football is different,(its a weekly commitment all year) because all those kids haven't been told they are in that starring role, he picked 10 kids, to play a game, then only choose 7 and told the other 3 that they were not good enough to be in the "main team" to me that's wrong. That is wrong coming from a "teacher"

I have never based this on ability, and I wont comment on ability either, I don't agree with it,and feel really strongly about it also, if you choose to have 10 players on a team, then you play those 10 players... even if you do a rolling on sub each week, you sub all those players.

I also hate that the school expects the kids to bring their kits in every week just in case the "main player" is ill/injured and expect the parents to pick up the pieces/arrange last min picking up/childcare etc...

Also fairenuff, he did not try and tell me it, he did tell us!, in his opinion ds is not as good as the other 7! his opinion, I wont comment on it, I disagree with it, but not because I think ds is the best, I disagree with it because he then should not have had 10 on his team, and play 3 kids against 7.

my own upset at the whole thing, is if he has 10 kids on his team then those 10 should be treated fairly and equally.

But children attend drama club all year and only a handful can have the starring roles.

It's really not that different, it's just that, to you, football is more important than drama.

but the stage is filled with kids.

they don't get told to stay at home.

True, Piglet but that doesn't stop the parents with 'spotlight envy' complaining, sadly.

If the coach said there are 40 kids who wanted to be on the team, then surely the question of fairness would be more of an issue for the other 30, rather than the team or subs?
Tbh I don't see an issue with it being competitive anyway at that age for extra curricular stuff, and if it's not competitive then why aren't they rotating it between all 40 kids who were interested, rather than what seems to be a small group who all play for teams out of school? If you're objecting to it being unfair then that should be your concern.

You have made a complete hash of things. Your poor son.

Drama stages aren't cold, rainy & muddy, an hour's drive away each way.

People on stage aren't relying on fast-reflexes and high skill competition against either other. In a league that will have rankings at the end of the year.

The comparison is a terrible fit.

The more I read OP's posts the less they sound like "principles" & the more they read like sour grapes.

I agree, I have maybe handled this all wrong, and if it were up to me ds would be pulled form the team, but ds wants to play (after a event that happened yesterday) and dh disagrees with me and wants ds to play.

I feel so strongly about this, that I am really thinking of contacting our board of governors or LEA. Because this isn't an isolated issue.

Football should be competitive, its a competitive game, I have never disagreed with this, if you choose to have 10 people in a team, all should be treated equally and fairly, children should not be singled out and be told they have to "prove" themselves.

If sour grapes means kids in a school football team get treated fairly and equally then I am a field full of them. I dont and would not apologise for having an opinion or stance.