school football team, anyone know the rules? AIBU (long)

[MsJamieFraser]

Sorry its going to be a long one so as to not drip feed.

Ds Y5, has been picked for his school football team, however was then told today that he is 1 of 3 subs and so this will mean he will play 2 school football games every term

7 boys will get a permanent place each week, (same boys every week) the games consist of 2 x 14min matches each week.

Ds has been told if he "proves" himself he will get more play time.

Ds has came home disappointed, and is saying how can I prove myself being a sub every 3 weeks (he may not even get a game when he attends) and is upset, hes also confused about the message the school is giving him, as a boy in his class has been given a permanent place who is known as a bad pupil (warnings, kept in at play time etc...)

Ds is a model pupil,(gets start of the week multiple times, HT award, pupil awards buddy awards etc) he has represented his school and county is many sporting events, (football, swimming. tennis, hockey, and has won each individual competition for the school) he is also a signed academy footballer

He attends the schools football training without fail,(every week) yet two boys who have been given a permanent place don't attend at all, and loudly state they would rather play on their xbox. (they do as the boys who ds is talking about, are in ds non signed football team and we are good friends with the parents) (ds, plays football for two teams, on a Saturday and Sunday)

Now back story me and dh run a U10's football team we are both registered coaches with the FA, what the school is doing goes against everything what the FA and grassroots stand for. I'm also worried about the message that ds has been told he needs to "prove" himself!

Im also concerned about the message ds has been told that 7 other boys are better than him (they maybe, but a 9 year old according to FA and grassroots rules) should NEVER be told this, also where is the TEAM spirit in this, It has already caused a divide in arguments between the boys who have a close friendship outside of the school football world)

I've also looked at the fixture list, so if ds plays his games, he will play in the semi final but not the final.

Ds is saying he does not know if he wants to play, I'm also worried about childcare as me and dh works FT and GP will have to pick ds up at the venue where the football is at, ds has also been told he will fill in for the boys who are sick/injured but again this has made him upset as he's the fall back guy, but yet is not good enough to play for the team...

I am just worried about the message that ds is getting, because who and what does he need to "prove" Ds has asked me to speak to the HT but I am unsure as I don't want to be known as that parent... but yet I dislike the message ds is getting.

It also can't be because he is already a footballer, as the whole team and footballers and in youth league teams.

Also I am not the only one who is unhappy, seen the other sub parents today, who feel exactly like I do, and one is wanting to pull her child out of the school team.

It sounds likely that at least some of the 7 permanent boys will not turn up every week, so subs will have more chances to prove selves than initially scheduled.

I'm not really following the logic of high principles, it's only a school team for heaven's sake. From what OP is saying, the boys selected to be permanent were not selected on ability so no worries there.

Fatmomma, I have no idea if that is the case, then I would welcome it, I have no idea tbh.

i think I have portrayed ds is a negative way here tbh, he is an easy going child, does not expect anything, he just does everything to the best of his ability, he never moans or groans, just gets on with life really... I mean he's not perfect if he was, his underwear would be in the dirty washing, I would not have to give him a step by step guide to getting washed and dressed in a morning, or tell him to put his dirty dishes in the kitchen etc... but honestly he's not expecting to be on the team, he was over the moon when he was told he made the team, he's just totally confused as what is expected of him.

I mean I would welcome and encourage any child, to be encouraged in any school event, I think thats a positive message to send to the children.

With this, I just dont see any positive message being told to the 3 subs, this just isn't about my ds, its about the other 2 kids, and the message its sending to all the players on the team.

Are schools actually governed by FA rules? I don't see why they would be unless they actually joined the FA in some form.

Pico2, I have no idea, its why I asked it on my title.

I'm sure that schools should follow the ethos of grassroots football.
But I doubt it is something the FA can enforce.

My DS2 was a very talented sporty child. He was good at pretty much any sport he tried. When he was in year 5 he joined the school football team. He was rarely lucky to get a game, he only played if another child was sick or failed to attend. It was the same boys who played week in week out. DS2 was only ever played in the back but he longed to be a forward and score goals. He kept asking his teacher/coach if he could have ten minutes every other week as a forward. He was told no. Never. Ever. He would only get a game if a permanent team member couldn't play. He told the coach he wouldn't play at all and then was lectured about team spirit yarda yada. He said why, he wasn't on the team, why should he be concerned with team spirit?
So he joined the local rugby club and got loads of games. The ethos was completely different, every child played, every game had loads of subs even the strongest players were benched to give all the team a chance to play.
The school team collapsed after a year as the boys who weren't on the permanent team left and the coach couldn't field a full team if there was any one sick or absent.
Silly shortsighted favouritism

I don't know if I should speak to the school or not, Dh says I am over thinking it, as that's what school football is like....

I'm also worried about ds being the fall back guy, is the school just expecting us/ds to ask ds to take his kit in every week in case a kid is sick/injured/on holiday etc....

How would that work with childcare, as we are expected to pick ds up at the venue... on such short notice. Well it would be his GP mostly. Who would need to travel to get ds1 at the venue (different schools) which could be up to 40 mins away... In such short notice, if we knew ds would be playing in advance we could do plan it better but GP would basically be putting that day on hold to accommodate the school...

Arg ive gave myself a headache.

I am also a football coach and I would totally understand you being a bit miffed if your son wasn't very good and was being left out for that reason. At grassroots level I agree, it should be about fun and everyone getting a chance to play, but school football is totally different. Yes, it would be nice if schools followed the same ethos but unfortunately until everyone agrees with this principal, then they wont; they want to win.

So, they put in the best players. I don't know why they haven't picked your ds because it certainly sounds as though he is very talented. Maybe they want to give other kids a chance? Sounds like your ds has represented the school at lots of things.It could be that as fatmomma says that the school are trying to encourage positive behaviour in a few of the boys or maybe the coach has a certain style he wants to try first and has a few boys in mind (Gerrard and Lampard were amazing but you couldn't play them in the same team)

The point I'm trying to make is it sounds as though your DS doesn't really need this extra football tbh if he is training and playing as much as you mentioned. If he is still adamant he wants to be involved it wouldn't be too bad a lesson to be a sub for a few games, would it? It teaches him that he doesn't have a god given right to be chosen( not that i'm saying he thinks he does) and teaches him about teamwork, supporting the other players etc It also teaches him that you don't go in the huff and say you won't play at all if you don't make the team BUT.. that you take your chance to shine when you DO play. It's character building and will make him a better player in the long run

Also ds2 would need picking up also an hour before ds1.

Luch I agree, if there is better players there are better players (I know these boys personally, (they play for our club) I would have told ds that's what his school team are doing and he needs to suck it up. Ds isn't so much bothered that he's a sub, he's more bothered that he has to "prove" himself, because he's been told this and he does not understand it, and is confused by it.

As am I.

I just don't get why the school have said there is 10 players but only allow 7 of those to play permanently, and the other 3 are made subs.

New to school football, and my impression so far has taken an instant dislike to it.

I should say also his mates are gutted that he didn't make the "team" (boy boy isn't) they also don't understand it, however I would also be u happy if ds made the team and 3 other children were in position.

Ds is 8 and trains 3 nights a week with a match every weekend. I honestly can't imagine how we'd fit in any additional training without sacrificing something else like school work, friendships or sleep.

In your situation I would absolutely without a doubt just pull him from the team and draw a line under it.

There could be all sorts of reasons why your ds hasn't been picked. Maybe the other boys don't get the chance to play football out of school or maybe they are more talented than your ds, performed better when they attended the try out or whatever. I think you will seem like you are being nprecious if you moan about this. You won't be able to find rules about this as surely every school has their own ideas about how to pick teams? I would encourage your ds to give it a go if he is interested in playing for this team. If you are right that these other boys are not committed then they will undoubtedly drop the team anyway. Maybe it is a good lesson for your ds that he won't always be selected.

Ah OK , I see what you're saying, though it does sound to me like a typical school team format. I have to say I wasn't a fan either (it's a bit of a shock once you've been through your badges, to see it resorting back to old skool style)

From what you say though I would be interested to know how the team was selected and then you would know where your ds stood. I mean it is a little odd; how can he pick the seven if he's not seen them play? Does he know ANY of the boys?Maybe he's not really doing the picking...maybe the other boys are louder and he is trying to play 'top coach' or he wants to stay on the good side of some parents or whatever? You wont really know until you speak to him so I would have a word and then you can weigh up what he's about and whether it's worth your parents taking time out to transport him to games.

Just be careful how you approach him so you don't come across as having sour grapes or upset him so much he flings his whistle away and takes his ball home Good luck

Cansu, precious? NO!

Ds isn't bothered that he hasn't been selected, I don't know how many times I have to state this!

What he's bothered about, is what he has to prove! And the mixed messages and expectations of him.

Ds is well aware of not being selected for sporting events, he didn't make his swim team, and also wasn't chosen to represent his judo team in his county, none of this bothered him, because it was explained that X was better skilled than him or was stronger than him etc.... So he went away and asked for help on his next session to improve these areas.

I'm also not going into a whose the better player/ or not and have purposely stayed away from those questions, because to me it does not matter, because my ethos is the same as the FA, every child matters no matter what their ability is at this age.

Op - can I hijack your thread and ask a quick question: my DD is 7 and plays for local u8 youth team well I say play - she turns up for practice each week but has been told she is not good enough to play matches at the weekend ( this happened all last season as well). You mentioned up thread that this against the rules - can you point me in the direction of that rule or have I misinterpreted what you said?

Your ds gets 3 hours of football 6 days a week??
Is this all academy??
who on earth is he playing for???

Re your post -the school matches seem bizarre and absurd. I'd have a word with the coach/PE teacher about how they select pupils for games and how fairly it's done! If you don't get sensible answers, pull your ds from the matches. What's the point?

ok so this:
if there is better players there are better players (I know these boys personally, (they play for our club) I would have told ds that's what his school team are doing and he needs to suck it up. Ds isn't so much bothered that he's a sub, he's more bothered that he has to "prove" himself, because he's been told this and he does not understand it, and is confused by it.
is what you need to feed-back to school. BUT if I was right (that they're trying to encourage children who they see as needing encouragement), they won't be able to say this to your DS (or you). So try and recognise this if you are fobbed off.

Being on the subs bench is crap... my DSis's DS was on the subs bench for years. He got max 5 minutes a match and consequently didn't get any better while the rest of his team-mates did. A miserable experience for him that just continued getting worse, with something he loved.

I should just declare at this point, I am NOT a football coach in my spare time, and I effing hate all sport. I hate that competitive shit stuff, and that some people just ARE naturally good at it. and somehow it's something we're all supposed to encourage and think it's 'good' for us, when there are SO many negative messages in there for all but those who are the best of the best. I think sport is pants (although I recognise that exercise is good for us). "There's no I in 'Team'!". Well, there's no I in "wankers" either!

But, unfortunately, DD loves it all, so I go with it.

Personally, I'd rather read a good book! (no I in "read a good book" either!

Bloody sport!

Scrappy, yes FA rules state that a signed player must get game time so for this age you will be playing 2 saturday games (15 mins each way?) so she should be at least getting 20 mins of playing time, because how can she improve if she's isn't getting game time.

Do you pay subs? My question to these type of coaches are how is t fair that you all pay the same amount but yet don't get treated equally, it's kids football Ffs! It's a real issue that boils my piss

What league does your dd play in, because if you think your club won't change its attitude you can complain to about them to your league, you can also contact the fair play team at the FA. (I will have to get my books out but there is ways to challenge this)

Personally I'd be looking at another club who wants to develop your dd, rather than just take your money.

You can't develop with no game time, training can inly take you so much, but it's on the pitch facing different teams that builds confidence and skill and also strength, but most importantly you need to make it fun!

I've actually shouted and put many a complaints in about coaches who verbally abuse their own players for not saving a goal or lost a tackle!

Cocktail

Yes he trains at 6am 3 days a week.

Then he trains for 2 hours, 4 days a week and he also has futsal. (Foot skills) 3 days a week.

Then on a Saturday and Sunday he has 50 min games (which he may be subbed on) then football training again for 2 hours on a sat.

Swimming and judo (also swimming with his school)

(Sunday night) is his free night. He wouldn't do it if he didn't love the bloody game, I used to hate football, but the benefits it has brought to ds life made me me Dh take our FA badges.

He's a very active and sporty kid, we lead full busy life's, and would stop it all tomorrow if that's what he wanted, but as of yet he loves the game.

Thanks - haven't paid sub's for this season yet as we were unsure about continuing and I think you've just helped put the nail in coffin. I think I'll search out a new team. Thing is - we know nothing about football so wasn't sure if this is how it was..

I'm desperate to find Ds a team but its next to impossible as he only started to play 18 months ago & no one wants to sign an Under 12 who is the size of a 7 year old even though his improvement over the last year has been massive & he's very dedicated.

If you have a grassroots page on Facebook ask on there, ask for her to be played on a lower division say 7 or 6 or even lower (depending on the leagues there can be up to more than 12 divisions)

If she plays against kids of her own ability then it will develope her in many ways.

When we started off our club, we were in division 14, 2 years ago, our boys are now in division 1, 2 of them couldn't run and kick a ball at the same time, 1 of them now is out top scorer and the other is a defender who is an absolute outstanding player.

They all get there, they may not be the best players, or the may be fantastic but if you get he attitude and team spirit and friendships right, everything else just follows suit, but you need to make it fun for them.

Balletgirl, same ^ application your son, theres also futsal which is fab and also fast feet, have a Google to see if their is any in your area most have free try outs to see if your child likes it.

He went to futsal for a term (it was skills not a team) but they closed due to low numbers & to be honest I wasn't overly happy with the way it was run (Ds & a few others repeatedly got hurt in training games because the coach didn't clamp down on kids doing dangerous things)

He goes to a soccer coaching school at our local sports centre once a week (it's indoor at the moment) & he also goes to an open training session run by a local Charter Standard Club as part of their community football obligation. It's a pay as you go type setup.

But he can't find an actual team who plays in a league to take him.