middle class

[southeastastra]

why is it so important for them to all conform to a certain standard

the right playschool, the right school, university, job

the right clothes, politically correct opinions, cars. does it not get suffocating to conform?

By definition, no social class has a monopoly on status markers. All social segments have their own status markers. My MIL was very attached to her collection of fur coats but wore the very cheapest supermarket underwear ie she was a peasant disguised as a Parisian bourgeoise. It's a social segment of its own

Yes it is very hard to pin down. Traditional British working class values have often been about pride and appearance. Cockney housewives polishing the doorstep etc, modern single mums buying three hundred pound travel systems, working class lads starting urban tribes such as Mod and Casual, in which one inch of extra fabric on a lapel is a faux pas, and brands such as Fred Perry are worn proudly as a tribe marker.

Meanwhile there are vast swathes of Middle class people who annoyingly don't fit the bitchy Herts mum template either. Jeremy Corbyn in a hand knitted jumper? Oxford dons in forty year old sports jackets? My mum, whose favourite jeans she nicked off my boyfriend in 1987?

If you look at the current news footage of demos against austerity, or pro refugees, you won't see many Boden clad private school mummies. You'll see a bunch of apparent scruffs. Many of whom are middle class, and couldn't give a fuck for labels (though the many scarves and comfortable shoes can act as a signifier if you're looking for one :) ).

its all so true. My stepmother is v sneery about us being so 'MC' yet at the same time disgusted by my charity shop habits..

I think people would view me as middle class, I am well spoken, have a post-graduate degree and good job, my children go to good local state schools, I live in a nice village, shop in Waitrose, Sainsbury's and farm shops, am happy to wear second hand clothing and buy it for my kids.

But I'm actually the product of hippy parents so don't really care. My friends come from all walks of life and most can't be categorised easily, which is what I like.

Your views on what makes someone "middle class" or "working class" reveal far more about your own personality and prejudices than they do about social class. Different generations express their status anxiety in different ways, anyway, regardless of social class. When it comes down to it, the middle classes were always in a tenuous position, as they could easily move down a class and were unlikely to move up a class, so were always haunted by the fear of losing the status and respect they had worked hard to achieve. Few middle class people have to look that far back to find their working class roots. To sneer at the middle classes is thus also to sneer at the aspirational working class who have a concept of "bettering" themselves, and, now that pretty much everyone seems to think they are middle class, to sneer generally at the society in which you live.

The middle class boxes thing was supposed to be a bit of a joke, i dont fit in any boxes so i dont think many people can be easily catagorised

But in some books, online discussions etc there are some things that are considered to be middle class markers, education, job etc

My background is working class i suppose, but externally i guess we are middle class

Except i dont have a professional job, or a university education.

I do have a boden coat...see I'm still confused

Perhaps the only real definition is that you are whichever class you think you are?

As Grayson Perry showed so well a lot of us with nothing to prove are more than content with no labels - in fact a label can be a bad thing and don't need posh cars wheras those aspiring to join a group do.

It's all just a bit of fun and people should simply laugh and do how they choose and treat everyone of all walks of life how they want to be treated.

Anyone who thinks social class in the UK today is unimportant and 'just a bit of fun' is confusing class markers (Boden coats, what/pardon etc etc) with the class system, which is alive and kicking and determining opportunities, education and longevity. Look at the Cabinet, if you think social class is unimportant.

I genuinely have no idea which class we are in. The children go to the local village school (where I work). DH and I are both University educated, he works for himself and earns at least 8 x my school salary. I also draw a salary from his business for doing his accounts and administration.

It's confusing because he was privately educated, I wasn't. He comes from a terribly middle-class family with connections to famous musicians/politicians, I was adopted at 10 by a lower middle class family done-good and my Dad has remained incredibly proud of his working class values and roots. We don't appear to fit anywhere.

I think I understand some what you meant op. I know a few families who are very 'keeping up with the Jones '.
And you're right. It looks exhausting.
Everything is about what other people would think, whether other people would approve/envy/admire. And they all compete with each other over the same things but not overly so.

But yabu to tar all people with the same brush.

There are certainly people who spend their lives trying to fit in with their neighbours.

that trait alone doesn't make them mc, and it isn't a requirement of being mc that you do care about it.

Our combined family income and where we live puts us in the mc bracket.
But I identify as wc due to my upbringing.
I drive a 10 year old car.
I buy clothes at asda and Sainsburys.
I don't do designer stuff.
I have never eaten hummus.

I really should not drink and mn sorry if I offended anyone

:)

There are definite trends, middle class parents round here tend to dress in a similar fashion, fall over themselves to get into the grammars, have tutors unless they are making a political statement. Of course I have an image in my head of what a middle class person is and then if they fit that image they are middle class to me.

As a working class woman my children go to the local school ( aside from the one who had no choice) and if they don't work hard I hit them.

" if they don't work hard I hit them."

and how has that been working out ?

"keeping up with the Jones'" might be exhausting, clumsy and easy to point fingers at, but I think it's healthier than MC people who sort of collapse into chaos, laissez-aller and downward social mobility while entertaining the idea that they retain their social status by having a million ancient books littering their hovel.

" MC people who sort of collapse into chaos, laissez-aller and downward social mobility while entertaining the idea that they retain their social status by having a million ancient books littering their hovel. "

LOL LOL LOL

I was in fact just wondering if I still counted as middle class as brushed the flies off the screen and checked the leccy meter....

but isn't it 'laissez faire'?

Them?

I am told I'm middle class. Those things couldn't be farther from the truth.

You have to be on a wind up to suggest any sort of uniformity among people who could be considered middle class. It's like suggesting that working people are all the same with their choice of trainers, ciggies, haircuts, tattoos and purveyors of pasties. Ridiculous and rather offensive.

I was joking, obviously I don't hit my children and if I did I would not share that on a middle class site like mumsnet- I would save that for the other site.

I do find however that I am stricter with my children than many of my middle class friends who seem to be endlessly reasoning and explaining to their children. In my house you do what we say because we have told you and that is enough, the same extends to school. They work hard because they know that we would go mad if they didn't and so perhaps mine can do well at that awfully common comprehensive at the end of the world.

I agree with OP the people in my area are utter clones.

I think I agree with you Boho
Like the sneering at regularly washed and ironed clothes on a recent thread....as if it somehow made them more real than other people.
No...just more smelly and crumpled.