AIBU to want this child kept away from DD

[Chala86]

Ok, a bit of backstory. DD started junior school last year and immediately started having problems with a boy in her class. Stealing from her, stabbing her with pencils, throwing things at her during break, and tried to strangle her. I have been told he has SN, however am of the opinion that his behaviour is unacceptable and the school have been little help in nipping it in the bud. DD has been told she has to play with this child during break and lunch last term. When I spoke to the teacher last year she said - but he doesn't go out of his way to play with her. First off, regardless if this is true or not, I fail to understand what it has to do with stealing and general unpleasantness that DD is experiencing. Second, according to DD, he tells her that she has to, so utter rubbish.
Anyway, this has now carried over into the new term. Today DD came out of school telling me that he threw a piece of fruit at her. I know it sounds petty, but she said her neck was sore for most of the day and that there wasn't time to tell an adult. And her teacher has told her that she has to play with him at lunch, which I'm totally against because of how he behaved last term.
AIBU to want this boy to be kept away from my child? At the very least to expect better supervision during break and lunch to ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen? I'm just concerned that it will escalate and am unsure how to proceed. Should I speak to the teacher again? Or do I just put it down to childhood squabbles?

YANBU. See the teacher and say your DD does not have to play with this child if she doesn't want to and you will take it to the governors if they try to force her.

I don't understand why your DD has been told she must play with this child. Never heard of a teacher saying that sort of thing unless the class as a whole are told not to exclude him. Doesn't sound quite right to me.

Agree she should be free to choose who she plays with. Is he asking to play, and she says no? Does he play with anyone else, is he being mean to others or just her?

Yanbu, why is she being told to have to play with him. SN or not, that type of behavior is not acceptable. Go speak to the teacher and make it clear that you don't want him to forced upon her.

Check with staff - I haven't heard of any child being told they must play with a particular child in any school I've ever been in, are you sure she's got that right? If that's confirmed by staff, ask to see your daughter's pay check for acting as a support LSA for that child.

If the child is targeting her are they keeping records of incidents? Do you check on each one? If he has attempted to strangle her that is a very serious incident and there should be a risk assessment in place for the child, plus supervision should be in place. I think you need to go into school and get the clear facts from the staff, then you'll be better equipped to work out how to help your dd.

You need to talk to the teacher. Maybe your dd and her friends were playing, the boy asked to play and she said no. Then a supervised told her to let him play.

Rather than she's been told she must play with him.

From what I can gather, from both DD and other parents, she's not necessary being singled out. Other children have had problems with him too. Last year DD and her friends were asked to play with him during lunch which is when we had the strangling incident. The school didn't tell me about this but DD was in tears after school and still had red marks on her neck and her friends told me what had happened. Apparently detention is a suitable punishment for this kind of behaviour. Hence why she and her friends are probably reluctant to play with him again. It's the first time I've been told that the teacher has told (or asked) DD to play with him and I am trying to take it with a pinch of salt. Teachers don't supervise during lunch, but the dinner ladies have no problem with telling the children to play with him. He doesn't have many friends as so many of the children have encountered problems with him. He is treated differently to the other students as he's difficult during lessons and plays up so is given special 'playtime' where he can choose one other child to go and play in a separate room. I gather this has caused some resentment amongst the other children.

I will go in on Monday and have a word with the teacher. I'm unsure about whether they have a record of past incidents. The school are a bit crap with communication and very rarely tell any parents about incidents like this that have gone on during the day, especially during break and lunch when teachers have to rely on dinner ladies to tell them what's happened.

It seems to me that if the teachers want this boy to be included and are already making special arrangements for him, then there needs to be a teacher present to supervise this boy during the break times. Of course no teacher will want to do this but that's what I would be insisting on if they want my DD to play with him during break times. There's no way I would allow my dd to be physically assaulted in the name of inclusiveness. They are clearly aware of the issues, I don't know how they can justify not supervising him during the breaks.

I agree Rainbunny. Many parents have mentioned the lack of supervision with this child. While I'm inclined to feel sorry for him having no friends, DD's safety is my priority. I get the impression that his family aren't the best role models. On Wednesday saw the mother walking both the boy and his younger brother to school. Younger brother had a branch and was going to hit his brother with it. Rather than telling younger brother to put it down she told the older boy to run. He still got a jolly good whack on the back and all the mother had to say was 'you didn't run fast enough'. Not to mention the lack of a reaction when her younger son called DD and I arseholes on the way home from school!

No you certainly do not just put it down to child hood squabbles. What is happening Is abuse both by the perpetrator and the school for what I see as brushing this matter under the carpet. They are failing morbidly in their legal duty of care.
So what I would do. Go back into the school. Now as hard as it is. Don't go in there ranting and raving, even though you might excusably want to. I'm not saying go in like Mr Tumble either mind, just be strong and assertive and tell them you expect this bullying to be sorted out, as you have complained before and seemingly nothing has been put in place. If my daughter and I get bo satisfaction. I will be going to the board of governors, and if I have to I will be going to the local authorities, because this is a very serious safe guarding issue.
And please do not worry about being that parent. You're her voice. You have to speak up for her. I was probably seen as that parent. I wanted and expected the best for my child. Put it this way, no teacher would accept any thing but the best for their child.

It sounds as though the school is trying to make the boy feel included as he has SN rather than just being a bully, but they are not going about it in the right way. Including a child doesn't mean allowing that child to physically attack other kids FFS.

My DS' school has a lot of children with autism who are sometimes inclined to lash out - but they have extra support staff and good supervision so if one of those kids is having a meltdown it's addressed before anyone gets hurt.

YANBU at all for how you feel and for wanting him kept away from your dc. Does this child have any 1-1 support? If not, and he's playing up in lessons as well, then the staff are probably desparate for more support but aren't getting it.

I don't think you can reasonably ask for him to be kept away from your dd. If every parent did that then he'd be completely isolated, and obviously the school can't do that. It's a really difficult situation for the school, they have an obligation to include this child and educate him to the best of their ability, but they also have an obligation to safeguard all the other children so that they don't get hurt by other students. But if they aren't getting the right support from the LA, then there is only a limited amount that they can do.

It's definitely worth you talking to the teacher, and the head though. I'd say it's worth more than a quick word, and you should book a specific meeting. Take a lust of all the incidents where your dd has been upset. They need to know that you're monitoring the situation and that you aren't happy with the way it's being handled. If they know you're on it, they will probably make more effort to avoid your dd being chosen for this special playtime. The problem will still exist, but all you can do is protect your own child the best you can.

"He is treated differently to the other students as he's difficult during lessons and plays up so is given special 'playtime' where he can choose one other child to go and play in a separate room. I gather this has caused some resentment amongst the other children. "

This sounds really weird to me, I don't know much about these sorts of situations though. I'd definitely be asking what on earth that was all about.

Good advice above.

Just wanted to add that while in year 5 or 6 of primary one of my DDs got told by her teacher that she had to play with a particular child who she'd fallen out with. The child's mother had been on the phone to complain to the school that my DD was ignoring her's and that she wanted DD to be made to play! It's a longer story than this, (this girl was a proper madame) but surfice to say - no way i was going to have DD told who to play with at break time.

yes, we have had the whole "yes i know little johnny bit/punched/kicked your dd but we feel she needs to play with him because that is why he is attacking her he is trying to get her attention" i declined i said its her choice if she plays with him or not and she should not be attacked for refusing to do so teacher was but she is being kind by playing with him we are teaching children to be kind ahem and biting is kind?

i went to the head

I don't think you can ask for him to be kept away from your DD as your later posts imply lots of the parents would make such a request and that your DD isn't being singled out. However you can definitely ask for more supervision or/and TA or teacher-led games in the playground. If they lead the games then they can both ensure this DC is included and that everyone is safe. Do ask for this as a meeting rather than grabbing a quick chat at the end of the day.

tbh it must be difficult for him and his family especially if all the other parents are sharing notes on his behaviour and judging the family. Then on top of that, the other DCs are resenting that he gets special treatment. I understand you feel protective of your DD and you do have to remind the school that they have a duty of care to all the DCs but I can't help but think there is some compassion lacking from your posts. However, that may just be the nuances that get missed when writing on the internet.

I accept that the school would be unable to completely separate DD from him and it would be unreasonable to expect that. I think what I want is more supervision, to be informed when these incidents occur and how they've been dealt with. I will speak to her teacher on Monday to see if we can come up with a reasonable solution.

Please put everything you have told us in writing to your DD's teacher, copied to the Head, and hand it to him / her. You need to include a request for a meeting by Wednesday (gives them time) 'to discuss and resolve' the situation. Ask for a note taker to be present.
This is a clear Safeguarding issue and the school is duty bound to take action. If you are not satisfied with the outcome and follow-up, check the school's complaints policy on their website and write to the Chair of Governors in an official complaint. Your DD only gets one education, one childhood, you have the right and responsibility to do everything necessary to support her.

Another reason to insist on break time supervision for this boy is for his sake as well. He needs constant reinforcement on how to behave properly it seems. Break time is a wonderful opportunity for children to socialize and learn conflict resolution skills amongst themselves but this boy has special needs and clearly needs more supervision and guidance, I would make this argument to your DD's teacher as well.

What happens if he pick the same child every time for his special playtime? Their education will be affected.

It is not on for teachers to palm him off on other children. It is the school to be teaching others and managing him so he can get the best education possible.

APlaceOnTheCouch - I do feel for him. No child should be without friends. However I refuse to accept that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. I wouldn't ask for DD to be totally separated from him (perhaps a poor choice in post title). I just want to know that my child is safe during school hours - not getting stabbed with pencils and strangled.

YANBU.I had a very similar situation with my DS and informed the school in no uncertain terms that they had a duty of care towards my son,just as the other boy,and that they must ensure he was safe and happy,and if that meant making sure the other boy was kept at a distance that's what they had to do.I informed them I would be returning with the police if my child was assaulted on their premises again.There were no other incidents.Good luck OP,special needs are not a licence to treat other children badly and hurt them.

Chala his behaviour isn't acceptable and I didn't say it was. The school seem to be failing in their duty of care to all the DCs.

If I were you, I would ask for a meeting with a senior teacher, not just the class teacher. It's an issue that has been allowed to continue for too long and it's an issue that may need to be resolved by a different allocation of resources, for both those reasons, I think you would be best escalating it.

You can ask for your DD not to be the one he selects to play with. He has hurt her several times and she has a right not to be forced to associate with him. In the classroom it's different where there is better supervision.

APlaceOnTheCouch - I didn't mean that to sound so snappy and I'm sorry if it read that way. Was trying to acknowledge you point that I sounded like I was lacking in compassion, because I do feel for him. It must suck not having friends to play with . I didn't mean to imply that you had said his behaviour was acceptable and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
Thank you everyone for the great advice and I will get onto the school on Monday. Turns out DD's teacher has a course on Monday so they'll have deputy head instead and he has a fantastic reputation for sorting these kind of problems.