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AIBU?

to think that there should be a warning on self-published books on Amazon, so that...

132 replies

ElizaPickford · 11/09/2015 12:50

... you don't end up spending actual money on the biggest pile of self indulgent, unedited, garbled bollocks by someone with the writing ability of an eight year old?

My poor DH recently bought me a book as a gift because it was about a subject I'm interested in and at a glance it had 5 stars and great reviews. I was looking forward to reading it, but when I picked it up on holiday I found it had capital letters randomly strewn throughout sentences, not a speech mark IN THE ENTIRE BOOK and as for the story line; it was so unbelievably incoherent and shit I was amazed. On closer inspection obviously someone (with no grasp of grammar or language) has just cobbled some ridiculous thoughts together and my well meaning DH actually spent a whole £6 on it.

This makes me really angry. I'm sure that there are perks to self publishing, but I really think there should be a warning somewhere so that you know that you could be buying utter drivel. It seems very unfair and almost fraudulent. I'm thinking I should create a coffee table compilation of my youngest child's most fantastical line drawings and charge unsuspecting victims customers £15 for a hardback edition.

IABU?

OP posts:
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ImperialBlether · 11/09/2015 14:22

The "Look Inside" feature is something you have to use with a lot of books, not just self published. I didn't use it on a book called "Big Little Lies" by a best selling writer called Liane Moriarty and wished I had as soon as I read the first page.

Some self-published work is terrible but there are a lot of writers here on MN who have self-published and I know there are some really good books around.

The funniest I saw (not written by a MNetter) was where the main character's name changed three times in the first paragraph. And the paragraph ended mid-sentence (and not in a postmodern kind of way, either!)

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/09/2015 14:28

Thanks to everyone on here who has said nice things about self-published books! As a self-published author I share the OP's frustration, not least because it gives a bad impression of self-publishing and you end up with people assuming ALL self-published stuff is bad.

The reality is that when a publisher makes a decision on a book, the priority is that the sums have to add up. You can have a book that the editorial department loves and thinks could win prizes, but the sales and marketing dept say sorry, it's great but the sales projections (based on typical sales in the genre) are too low. In some genres it can be very hard to get started, because new authors typically sell fewer books, so that feeds into very low projections for a book which, if it was by an established author, would be a good solid bet. Likewise if an established author writes a book that is a flop, they can find themselves being dropped by their publisher and have trouble getting back into the game with their next book.

Self-publishing is therefore now being used by professional writers as well as inexperienced ones. It's also being used by established authors to get their out-of-print books back in print. You won't necessarily notice these books are self-published, though, because they can have professional editing and cover design. Some of the top literary agencies have set up their own imprints so although their authors are essentially self-pubbing, no-one notices because they have a plausible-sounding publisher name attached to it (and the books are good!)

For this reason I'm not in favour of warnings about books being self-published. It would be nice if there was a big, widely-recognised accreditation scheme for self-published books produced to a professional level - one or two have been set up in the US but they're not well-known enough yet to really make a difference here. For now, I am just very careful to read the blurb and the extract. Writing a blurb is hard so very few really rubbishy books have a decent blurb - it's usually a giveaway before you even get to the extract.

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FatherReboolaConundrum · 11/09/2015 14:40

That is dire. Never trust anything self-published that only has 5 star reviews - it's a sure sign that only the author's mates and family have read it and would give them 5 stars if they wiped their arse and self-published the shitty loo paper.

I have a friend who self-publishes; when a new novel comes out he tries to get everyone to give it 5 star reviews - apparently it doesn't matter if you haven't read it Hmm. When I told him that the exclusively 5 star reviews for his godawful mess novel written by Amazon customers who had only reviwed his books (and nothing else, ever) were a dead giveaway that he'd just got his mates to write them, he told me it didn't matter because the people who buy novels in this genre are thick and won't notice. Oddly enough, I haven't rushed to catch up with him since then.

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LadySheherazade · 11/09/2015 14:41

Oh my god. I thought she was German or something until I read her bio on Goodreads.

Someone should really tell her.

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SolidGoldBrass · 11/09/2015 14:46

Amazon reviewing policy is getting more and more annoying as well - perfectly innocent, well-intentioned people are getting their reviews pulled because Amazon say the reviewer 'knows' the author when it's acase of the reviewer being a fan of the author's other work.
OK, in my genre a lot of us know each other and sometimes review each other's books, but we do our best to be fair about it. Add to that the fact that there are now review mills (authors can pay to have reviews put on Amazon/Goodreads) and you start realising that reading reviews is not remotely useful when it comes to working out whether or not abook is any good.

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FatherReboolaConundrum · 11/09/2015 14:53

I think Amazon reviews are okay as long as you treat them like TripAdvisor reviews and assume that some of them are paid for/written by mates, be wary of anything that only has 5 star reviews (no book however good only has 5 star reviews if they are all genuine). And they can produce hours of entertainment

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/09/2015 14:55

I think reading reviews is useful but you learn more by starting with the bad reviews than the good ones. If the only 1 star reviews are clearly completely ridiculous (like the bad review of the 'How to use Twitter' book that just criticises Twitter) or the lowest are 3 star reviews that are fairly nuanced and obviously sincere, I tend to reckon the book isn't too bad.

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LarrytheCucumber · 11/09/2015 15:12

I have been known to write a review on Amazon, but rarely give more than 4 stars, even if I love the book.
I recently reviewed a self published book, which was actually a lot better than the ones under discussion here, but I noticed some of the reviews were over the top. On the cover of the book she had a quote from the mainstream publisher who had turned her down, which made it sound as though he liked it by missing out part of the comment.
As I was the only one giving it a negative review I gave it to a friend to read, and she loved the book and said she couldn't wait for the next one!
The moral of this story is that all reviews are subjective.
We don't all like the same things, otherwise why would Catherine Cookson (whose books I really didn't like) have sold so well.
Although I agree the ones under discussion are pretty dire.

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HarrietVane99 · 11/09/2015 15:16

Typed a long post and lost it.Confused
Briefly, Amazon cracked down on reviews a while back when some well known authors who should have known better were outed as having posted anonymous negative reviews on competitors' books, whether or not they deserved it. Genuine reviewers and authors have been caught in the fallout.

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Amethyst24 · 11/09/2015 15:20

I'm another self-published author. I pay handsomely to have my books professionally edited and the covers designed. There is an awful lot of bad writing out there by both traditionally published and self-published authors - the look inside feature is a god-send and Amazon is very good about refunds. Incidentally, I was offered a traditional deal but turned it down on my agent's advice, because she said I would make more money self-publishing in my genre (and she was right).

But look at the books "written" by Katie Price, for example - traditionally published, error-free for the most part, but still a load of shite Grin

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Amethyst24 · 11/09/2015 15:23

There was a lot of fuss recently about Amazon's policy changing, but when we checked with them we were told it's fine to give free advance copies for review as long as the reviewer discloses it - that's how Netgalley works after all.

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HarrietVane99 · 11/09/2015 15:24

May I ask what your genre is, Amethyst?

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FatherReboolaConundrum · 11/09/2015 15:26

some well known authors who should have known better were outed as having posted anonymous negative reviews on competitors' books

I've not read anything by Orlando Figes since he was outed for this and tried to blame his wife.

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Amethyst24 · 11/09/2015 15:31

Romance, Harriet Smile Yours? (Nosy!)

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MmeGuillotine · 11/09/2015 15:37

I'm self published (but also have an agent and book deals with two publishers) and pay to have my books edited. I like to do my own covers though as I'm a bit arty and like to play around on Photoshop but I pay quite a lot to buy nice pictures from stock art sites then edit them. I choose to self publish some of my work because it gives me a much more consistent income than trade publishing where the money comes in big infrequent chunks.

I never EVER read my reviews on Amazon or anywhere else because I've seen far too many authors embarrass themselves by going into full on public meltdowns over negative reviews or get really upset about them. My publisher, who DOES look, says there's a nice mix though as we agree that nothing but five stars is just as bad as all one stars.

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StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes · 11/09/2015 15:42

I read a book of amazon on my I pad the other day and got so cross at the constant use of loose when she meant lose, missing words to make the sentences make sense and spelling errors, quite spoilt the book for me hmmmfff

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Amethyst24 · 11/09/2015 15:43

I wish I had your self-control, MmeGuillotine!

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MmeGuillotine · 11/09/2015 15:57

Haha, it was tough at first but now I just never even think about looking! I keep telling author friends to stop looking when they get upset about some nit picky review on Amazon or Goodreads but they're hooked on the angst of it all, I think! Grin

I just prefer to think of reviews as being for other readers, not writers and to assume that if someone REALLY badly wants to give me direct feedback then they'll get in touch. Luckily I only get fan mail...

If you're bothered by a bad review though, I found that the best thing to do is to go and look at the one star reviews of your favourite books. It's very therapeutic and serves as a great reminder that one readers shit heap is another's pile of diamonds. Or something. It's been a long day, I'm all out of metaphors...

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Summerisle1 · 11/09/2015 15:58

YANBU! I know that there are some very good, self-published works out there but my experience is that they are swamped by the truly terrible streams of consciousness so beautifully illustrated by the works of Ms Koala Mullen.

Her style is tremendously similar to that of an interesting friend of mine in the US. Her books are notable for any knowledge of, or research into, her speciality (English detective fiction) and all you can say is that the extracts she sends you to comment on rewrite leave you howling with laughter. She truly doesn't think of herself as self-published either.

I'm hoping Ms Mullen's output improves when she sticks to antique chocolate moulds.

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MmeGuillotine · 11/09/2015 15:58

That should be 'reader's' OBVS. LONG DAY. LONG DAY.

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HarrietVane99 · 11/09/2015 16:07

Mostly historical crime and mystery, Amethyst, with a bit of romance here and there. I've heard that romance is a big seller on Kindle. I gather erotica is the other big seller, because no-one can tell what you're reading on an e-reader!

I've not read anything by Orlando Figes since he was outed for this

FatherReboola, being a historian myself, I think it's appalling that an academic historian should think this is OK. What is he teaching his students about professional integrity? Miss de Vine would be appalled.

I don't often go and look at my reviews, but I do like to look at the 'also boughts' for my books, so I do sometimes notice if I've got a new review.

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FishWithABicycle · 11/09/2015 16:17

My goodness I am shocked you managed a few pages! that is so dreadful. One of the early paragraphs, 7 or 8 lines long, is just a single sentence! So unreadable and awful. Presumably all the 5-star reviews are fake but they can't have been written by the author as they are punctuated and composed reasonably.

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lorelei9 · 11/09/2015 16:23

good to hear from some self-published writers

this is why I said I don't think self published = bad.

if you can keep more of your profits, why wouldn't you?

maybe I have bought self-published books on the kindle and don't even know!

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ImperialBlether · 11/09/2015 16:39

I don't know how people resist reading their reviews! I read them even though two of mine say they were the worst book they'd ever read! Now that I have the link to that Anne of Green Gables fan fiction, I can happily prove them wrong.

What I hate is seeing I have a new review and then wondering whether it's going to crush me or not. I have a 4.4 average and a 4.6 average so I'm happy with that.

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GoooRooo · 11/09/2015 16:44

I've self published a non-fiction book. I hired an editor, someone to format both the paperback and ebook and a graphic designer to do the cover. It cost quite a bit but, I hope, the result is that you wouldn't know it's self published.

Unfortunately not all authors can afford to do that and as a result some of the self published fiction I've read has been truly awful. Non fiction is not as bad generally as authors tend to write about what they know so even if the formatting isn't great, the content tends to be fairly authoratative.

That said, I've read some GREAT self published fiction - Hugh Howey's WOOL series springs to mind.

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