to think Christenings aren't about religion and a mostly an excuse for a piss up

[mileend2bermondsey]

Lots of people I know are getting their DC Christened and honestly I don't think one of them truly believes in God/Christianity or even attend schurch. They go on about what church they want to use and who will be the Godparents, AIBU to think they are being hypocrites and just using it as an excuse for a party? 90% of them aren't married so clearly are not interested in that aspect of Christianity. The children won't be raised as active Christians/attend church/study the Bible. So why is this aspect of te religion so important and the rest is give or take?

If you want a party to celebrate a childs birth or whatever that is perfectly understandable. I went to a lovely non-religious naming ceremony that had non-religious versions of Godparents etc. Why pretend to be active in a religion you don't practice? I don't get it?

Don't know why I put 'if' in that sentence. You just send them to a secular school if your beliefs are that strong.

YABU. Religion is a private issue. Worry about your own beliefs and let people get on with theirs. For many Christianity is not a belief but a culture. Does that help explain it at all?

I wish there were more secular schools, there isn't a single one - primary or secondary - within 30 miles of us.

Christianity is not a belief
Interesting take on it. Nope. I still don't understand.

One
Admittedly there aren't secular schools everywhere. However I hardly think that means you have to Christen your child and pretend to believe in a religion you don't to get your child into school, with the only alternative being homeschooling as Dowager is claiming.

Mileend, some people don't believe in god and the afterlife but do believe in being a good person, kindness to others etc. and are happy to associate with the church as it is part of their upbringing and family culture (even if they don't believe in god). I am athiest but attend and use all the ceremonies of the church as (for me!) it is about friends, family and community but I have simply never been able to believe in God. Frankly, as I said, religion and belief are private matters. If people gain a sense of community and reflection from church, (but dont believe in God the almighty) then that is fine in my opinion. Its none of anyone elses business.

Sorry Cherry but I still don't see why a non-believer would want to have a religious ceremony which is introduces and commits the child to the religion they don't believe in.

some people don't believe in god and the afterlife but do believe in being a good person, kindness to others etc

Sorry, do you hvae to go to church/be Christened to have beliefs such as kindness??

mileend2bermondsey Because being a non-believer, they don't believe in the commitment. Religion isn't really a commitment, and they want the ceremony because they believe in it.

I think there are a lot more people who waver over declaring an out and out faith but still feel tied to the religion of their childhood. Maybe I'm seeing this from a specific point of view but with my Italian Catholic family, part of being Italian is linked to going to mass, Roman Catholic weddings, the big community at Christenings and funerals etc. It forms a big part of their immigrant identity that they would lose by having secular celebrations, and it is generally accepted that people turn up at Christmas, Ash Wednesday and Easter to join in the community even if they're not religious.

It was my understanding that there were no genuinely, and completely, secular schools in the UK.

I am surprised - and pleased - to learn that they actually exist. Can anyone provide links to any?

I wasn't aware any total secular schools existed. I thought all schools had to have some form of worship and religious teaching

I went to a secular high school and there was also a local secular primary school which many of my classmates had previously attended. I didn't realise it was out of the ordinary. In fact of the 4 high schools in the locality only one was a faith school - RC.

Me and my dh were baptised catholic as were are parents and the majority of our families. We both believe in God, have had our children baptised and they now go to catholic school, however we aren't at church each and every Sunday. Don't get me wrong we do go, and we take communion, our DC have taken their first holy communion etc but we aren't there every single week as we have busy lives. Now just because of this it doesn't mean that we don't take our faith seriously and it doesn't mean we had our children baptised just for the sake of it or for a "piss up". I think a lot of people are like us in the fact they do believe and they like the idea of church and all that comes with it and they feel that it's right to have their children baptised and feel comforted by it, and to me there's nothing wrong with that.

I know of a family who recently made it very loud and clear to everyone who would listen how disgusted they were at the school place their Dd had been offered. It was a local Catholic school. They stupidly assumed they would get a place at their (non christian) catchment so never bothered to fill in all three choices. They were adamant they would not be sending their child there because they didn't want her going to a religious school and 'doing all that God shite.'

Two weeks later it was the christening of both their children. In a church. With a vicar. 'Doing all that God shite.'

From Wikipeadia:

*Religious Education (RE) is a compulsory subject in the state education system in England. Schools are required to teach a programme of religious studies according to local and national guidelines.

Religious Education in England is mandated by the Education Act 1944 as amended by the Education Reform Act 1988 and the School Standards and Framework Act 1998. The provision of Religious Eduction is compulsory in all state-funded schools, but it is not compulsory for any of the children to take the subject. The subject consists of the study of different religions, religious leaders, and other religious and moral themes. However, the curriculum is required to reflect the predominant place of Christianity in religious life and hence Christianity forms the majority of the content of the subject. All parents have the right to withdraw a child from religious education, which schools must approve.[1]

Additionally, all schools are required by law to provide a daily act of collective worship, of which at least 51% must be Christian in basis over the course of the academic year.

YABU. Perhaps the couples in question don't feel comfortable talking to you about their faith as you seem (from your OP) quite anti.

As I say, I am surprised to learn that there are actual, genuine secular school, and would love to understand more about how these schools operate within the existing framework as outlined above.

Yanbu, round here it is a flashy excuse for a piss up. I find non-believers having their children christened to be hypocrits.

There are no secular schools in the UK. Compulsory worship of a broadly Christian nature. COMPULSORY. And, there are also State funded faith schools.

Going back to the Christening point, there does seem to be a lot of one-upmanship. I don't see the issue. We're Jewish. If other people are Jewish and less religious, so what? If they want to have a big party for New Year, great - the more the merrier. If they want a barmitzvah, then good luck to them. Life is too short to worry about whether they "truly religious", whatever that means.

A christening alone doesn't help you to get into a school really though does it? You have to also regularly attend church.

We had a christening for both DD's when they were born, to appease my parents and as an excuse for a party and for everyone to see the baby.. But we did specify no gifts.

It's a cultural thing really - I'm Irish, was raised RC (atheist since my early teens though) and there are plenty of people who will bring their kids to the church for a christening, communion and confirmation and never darken the doors otherwise. My brother, just as much of a non-believer as me, got his one year old daughter baptised to make it easier for her to get a school place because schools in south Dublin are very oversubscribed and people practically have to put the baby's name down on the way home from the hospital to get an Educate Together place. There's also the Power Of The Irish Mammy - people who don't believe a word of it but will go through with religious ceremonies because De Mammy won't be happy otherwise. My MIL is very religious, but tolerant and really enjoyed our humanist wedding ceremony :)

I'm 12 weeks along with #1 and have no intention of baptising - was more than a little creeped out when I was at the church for my niece's one in July!

There's more to religion than the actual beliefs. People find comfort in the ceremonies and traditions - christenings, weddings, funerals. There's nothing to make a non religious person's attachment to church ceremonies for emotional reasons less valid than a religious person's attachment to it for slightly different emotional reasons. FYI you can christen a child by dunking it in the sink - the ceremony part is as optional for religious as for non religious people.

I think people who christen their kids for the sake of a school place to be absolutely right and rational, why should believers get a prime position in the front of the queue a a good state funded school just because their parents sign up to the God thing ,.. Al kids should have an equal opportunity to access good education especially when it's funded by the state

Exactly, Notoedike - you cannot avoid religion in British schools, so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

It's inevitable. Until the church is separated from the state/education, this will continue to happen, and it's hardly surprising. (Most) people want the best education possible for their kids; that's never going to change.

Tri - it is absolutely a cultural thing in Ireland; not so much the UK, I don't think.