AIBU to think that most of us take the NHS for granted?

[Kampeki]

My niece has recently given birth to twins. They were born prematurely, and both have had breathing difficulties. She and her husband are from a small rural community, and they have very little money. So far, they have exhausted all of their savings to keep the babies in intensive care, as well as all of the savings of her husband's extended family. If we were not able to send them money from here, she would have to take them home.

My dd spent a week in the special care baby unit after she was born, and it was a horribly stressful time, but I didn't even give a second thought to how much her medical care was costing. I took it for granted that she would get the support that she needed.

My niece and her babies will get the help that they need, but I wonder how many other women around the world are forced to take their premature babies home because they can't afford to stay in hospital.

Made me realise how very lucky we are. We must never let the government take our NHS away.

Rather like the State School system, the NHS is chronically underfunded because the people who run the country don't use it.

When do you suppose Oily Dave, Rebekkah or the notorious tax-avoiding Lord Rothermere last sat in A&E at three in the morning, or tried to get a same-day appointment at a GP?

I heart the NHS too. Long may it prosoer

Prosper!

PigletJohn I think you will find that both Michael Gove and David Cameron send their children to state schools.

When do you suppose Oily Dave, Rebekkah or the notorious tax-avoiding Lord Rothermere last sat in A&E at three in the morning, or tried to get a same-day appointment at a GP?

I imagine David Cameron did often when his son was very ill. I recall him sharing that his son's care was all provided by the NHS. I imagine if any of those people were taken ill unexpectedly they would sit in a&e because so few private hospitals take emergency cases.

I've no idea when they tried to get a same day appointment at a GP, why would I have. I do know that if I'm ill enough not to go to work, I'm generally too ill to get to the GP but if I do need a same day appointment I can usually get one if I'm available all day. Entirely reasonable.

I certainly don't, my dd1 has severe asthma, her monthly medication would cost about £100 on a private script and as for drs appointments, hospital appointments and hospitalisations i dread to think what the cost would have been!

Sadly my DH's hospital has a "VIP protocol" for when a politician well-known person arrives. And it doesn't involve sitting in A&E waiting for hours with drunks and crazies like the rest of us. Surprise surprise.
The NHS is very Orwellian. I am very glad it is unsustainable and will go soon. Healthcare is not free and we should stop pretending it is. I just hope that we adopt the social insurance system (like most of Europe) rather than a US style one.

In theory the NHS is brilliant and I am all for it. In reality it sometimes lets people down.
I am 19 weeks pregnant, and this weekend had a sudden heavy bleed late at night. I called the number on the front of my maternity notes, but because I am less than 20 weeks, they would not see me and told me to contact 111 for an out of hours doctor appt. I called 111 at 11pm and was told no need for a+e and that a doctor would call me back soon. An hour went by, no call, so I phoned them back. They then informed me that it can take 2 hours, so I still had another hour to wait. The doctor finally called me back at 3am, 4 hours after my inital phone call, and two hours longer than what they told me. By this time I had been awake for 21 hours and my body had given up and slept through exhaustion, and even the phone didn't wake me. Doctor called once more then left a message saying they were closing the case and I would need to call 111 if I still wanted to be seen.
So I called 111 again at 7.30am, waited again for a doctor to call, finally got appointment with out of hours doctor.
Doctor found fetal heartbeat thank god, but said she wanted me seen at maternity on monday as cause of bleed not obvious and cramps ongoing. Asked me to wait in reception while she sorted an appointment.
Called me back in after 10 mins to tell me that she can't get me seen at maternity hospital. Early pregnancy unit aren't interested because I'm more than 18 weeks, and maternity won't see me because I'm less than 20.
So I've had a big bleed and no-one knows why or seems to care about finding out. If I was one week more or less pregnant then someone would do something. Gp suggested it could be placenta praevia, but as no-one will scan me there is no way to know. So i'm left in limbo not knowing if it is likely to happen again, or if my baby or myself could be at risk.

In theory, i love the NHS, but today I am feeling pretty let down by them.

The comment up thread about fistulas just reminded me of something else. My friend had surgery for anal cancer leading to one of these. The first she realized she had a fistula was (TMI alert) when faeces started leaking from her vagina and would not stop. Given her history, she went straight to A&E....and was promptly told off for inappropriate use of the A&E service! Apparently there is nothing urgent about this. She lived another 4 years after that and nothing was done, they left her like that. It's quite interesting that there are UK charities sending surgeons to the developing world to repair fistulas, but that they are seemingly impossible to repair on NHS. It may have been her comorbidities that prevented surgery, but this was never explained, and the way she was treated by individual staff was unforgivable. For example, I am hoping there is a very hot place in hell reserved for the NHS nurse who waved her finger in her face and through gritted teeth told her angrily she was more than capable of washing herself. (She was dead within a week). She got some peace in the end at a hospice but it was the only compassionate care she got at the end of her life.

I feel sad that as a nation we accept this level of care is fine to be dished out to some people because it's "free".

I think the French system is the way to go

If we spent as much on healthcare as French system, we would be fine. Although I wouldn't be able to afford to stay in hospital when I need to, under French system where there is a minimum charge of £12 a day for food and board. I do not spend £12 a day on food for myself.

YANBU

We're in mainland Europe and agree that the system works better here and that people appreciate it more and don't abuse it as much because they pay a little towards their own care.

For example, people don't miss appts because they have to pay for them and you don't tend to find A & E departments full of drunks on Friday nights.

Most importantly, because everyone here has obligatory, non-profit-making subsidised health insurance, the poorest and most disadvantaged do not have to pay, and the rest are reimbursed their health care costs on a sliding scale according to their income (and dependent on their age, the size of their family/how many dependents, and whether or not they have a chronic disease).

People have far less 'spending money' available here because of higher taxes and health care and I'd go as far as to say that they almost consider it their moral duty to take some financial responsibility for their own health. As a result, you don't find many people with flash kitchens or bulging wardrobes.

I think the NHS is (in the main) an amazing institution (with some incredibly talented and hard working members of staff) with incredible aspirations. But the elephant in the room is that with the combination of an ageing population, increasing demand, medical developments in treatment, it cannot sustain itself via the tax system as we know it and no politician dare say that openly.

I am willing to pay more than I do currently through tax, is what I meant earlier. But I think through some kind of tax or universal insurance is better than having people choosing whether to visit the GP or not because of money. I know it would get rid of some of the real time wasters - well, unless they had money - but I think it's more of a concern that people wouldn't go when they should. The conscientious people already try not to go if it's not needed, and when you are also faced with having to pay a chunk each time, would probably go even less often. Or wouldn't keep coming back for a check even if the doctor said they should, etc.

I'd still prefer a system that doesn't leave it up to individuals to have to make that choice, because it means wealthier people can just go whenever they want, for minor problems or for earlier treatment of symptoms that might be serious, whereas people with less money or who are less sure about making medical decisions might just not go, and thus not get treatment for more minor things, and might be missed with major symptoms until too late. That would introduce as much of a two-tier system as private care does now.

So while there does need to be more funding somehow, I don't think it should change from being free at the point of use; better patient education about what needs a doctor or not, and changes in management, should be priorities first.

I had never missed a medical appointment in my life. In the last year I have missed three. I am ill and just get confused. All three times I got mixed up about when my appointment actually was. Having to pay would make no difference except to my finances.

Yep. We are in a high performing organisation delivering frontline support and yet have been reviewed 6 times in 4 years. Being told we're all for review again this year and that they want to lower the headcount. Worried about what will be left and the mental state of the workforce delivering it. We have 30% DNAs for OPAs in some services, it costs a fortune to employ those staff waiting for people who don't show.

YABU. I live overseas where private health care is the norm. I'm constantly shocked by the stories I hear from friend in the UK as regards NHS treatment and waiting times.