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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder why teachers are so sure school is better than home Ed for all children?

213 replies

IceBeing · 01/09/2015 22:34

An acquaintance is thinking of removing her 5 yo from school as he has started self-harming due to anxiety about going.

The school seem to be all over themselves to tell the parent that there is no way home ed would be preferable to carrying on in school.

What makes schools so very certain on this point and what would it take for a school to admit a child might be better off being taught at home for a spell or even entirely?

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OwlinaTree · 01/09/2015 23:00

ice that would be a hard question for teachers to answer as most probably don't have experience of home ed.

junebirthdaygirl · 01/09/2015 23:01

I'm a teacher and support homeschooling if that what parents want to do. I have a few friends who have homeschooled and done a fantastic job.Their children are in college and doing great.I have always been keenly interested and supportive. I have had some children removed from our school to homeschool and know from chatting to the kids when l meet them that they are doing very little which is a form of neglect l believe. l often think about what those children will feel when they grow up.

littlejohnnydory · 01/09/2015 23:01

No, it wouldn't be a safeguarding issue, Fairenuff, Home Educated children are not isolated and if support is needed it should come from those qualified to offer it, not teachers, who have little or no training in child mental health.

ClearBlueWater · 01/09/2015 23:01

No, it's not 'goady' it is about doing your (thorough) research before making an informed decision.

If we all H/E then the teaching profession would be stuffed so I imagine there is some general (perhaps unconscious?) feelings about that. That and having done a degree and a prof qual in teaching and some 'uppity parent' (tongue firmly in cheek) thinking they can do it 'as well as you'.

How very dare they?

Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:02

coffee again I agree....we are certainly really keen to get socialising going...although we have found socialising to be very different in home ed groups. They tend to be very strict about inclusivity. No boys game, or girls games and anyone can join in anything regardless of age.

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OrionsAccessory · 01/09/2015 23:03

Certainly not all teachers think school is the best thing for all children. Quite a big proportion of my home ed friends/acquaintances are trained teachers (some primary and some secondary) and most of them have never sent their children to school at all.

littlejohnnydory · 01/09/2015 23:04

OP, I think it is because teachers and the population generally don't understand Home Education. They imagine a child at home, at the kitchen table, being taught by a parent. They see teaching as imparting knowledge rather than a facilitating role. They also have little knowledge of the Home Educating community and the social opportunities available to HE children, and see school as the only available route to relationships with peers and independence from parents.

goawayalready · 01/09/2015 23:04

A higher % of HE kids are brought to the attention of children's services (than schooled children) but a lower % end up with any form of intervention at all. Home education in itself is not a welfare concern and should not be treated as such

^^ this personally my son was considered at risk because at two years old i was not using my free 15 hours i was reluctant to because he was two and my last i wanted to spend time with him they honestly couldnt understand why i didnt want to throw him at the school for 15 hours even though it wasnt convenient for me to do so (i walk so it doubled my journeys to/from school with him and his brother) i just wanted to use 12 so i could have two full days and leave it at that but in core group i got the well we are concerned you are reluctant to send your child to nursery so we wonder why? apparently loving my son and wanting to spend time with him was the wrong answer so i pointed out about the long journey back and forth they told me i needed to make an effort and make time for myself and knacker myself in the process

i also went to look at a school saying i was a little reluctant to send her to school (pfb and i definitely didnt want her to grow up so fast) they reassured me so i sent her (and i wish i still lived in that area and could send my son)

OwlinaTree · 01/09/2015 23:04

Are there boy games and girl games in schools then? In primary?

Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:04

I think there maybe on average a difference between children that are taken out of school because that isn't working and the parents feel they have no choice as opposed to those that set out with a home schooling vision and are more aligned with the principles and have already formed networks before the event.

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TurnOffTheTv · 01/09/2015 23:05

I doubt very much it's a 'north east' thing.

whattodohatethis · 01/09/2015 23:06

Probably because self harming is very worrying.
There is nothing to say that it is the anxiety at school causing it. Could just as easily be anxiety over home life.

Or it could be that they are concerned that it isn't self harm and that someone else is harming him.

Much harder to monitor and build up enough trust in a child for them to be comfortable enough to ask for help if they are home schooled than if they are going to school every day.

Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:07

owlina unless it has changed a huge amount from when I was there...and looking at the playgrounds as I go past it certainly hasn't....then yes.

Girls are sat around chatting or sometimes skipping...boys are playing football or tag.

Also almost all socialisation happens in year groups.

The home ed met ups are much less stratified with kids of all ages engaging with each other and no gender segregation.

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BoffinMum · 01/09/2015 23:07

I'm an educationalist and have a very open mind about all forms of education.

School is a useful preparation for being in groups later in life, and conforming to the needs of institutions. I happen to think that's actually quite a useful set of skills.

Home Ed achieves different things. Perhaps more self-reliance and greater autonomous learning skills. Better independent thinking and a healthy scepticism of authority that again can be quite useful.

Ideally you want both in the educational mix, at different times.

However if you find a child is self-harming, this is about stress and anxiety and could happen in either setting. It is a psychiatric problem and needs appropriate investigation.

mrstweefromtweesville · 01/09/2015 23:08

Who says they are? I was a teacher for 21 years and always thought Home Ed (by me) would be better!

School is what we have. Its a big, expensive system that has to perpetuate itself so that lots of people can keep well-paid jobs. Also, it is the biggest childcare system known, and keeps children out of their parents' hair for part of the day. Lots of parents value that. Some of them are also teachers.

Governments like schools because they have access to young people and can try to lead them the way they want them to go - prepare them to be compliant citizens. They can also log and track every child - sometimes useful in cases of abuse but less reassuring when you realise they are tracking your child's intellectual development. What do they want to know that for, I wonder? Governments also like the childcare aspect, as they really want adults to work, earn, spend and pay tax.

Governments don't like the expense, so they try to make the education system cost less.

If you're a bit weird, and you'll make your child weird, don't home-school. I intended to, but my very sensible child wanted to sit in warm classrooms and meet people who would invite her to parties.

SuburbanRhonda · 01/09/2015 23:08

I think asking a school about home education versus school would only be useful if the member of staff had experience of home schooling. Otherwise you just get their opinion, a bit like asking a home educator the same question.

OP, has your friend tried any other course of action apart from withdrawing her child from school?

OwlinaTree · 01/09/2015 23:08

Hummm maybe on the yard. Not as part of lessons. But they are usually in year groups.

OwlinaTree · 01/09/2015 23:10

Infants not so much.

Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:12

suburb I thought they might have insight on kids returning to the system...but if they did, we never found it under the heap of BS.

There is have been a bit of toing and froing in terms of the parent being in dialogue with the school about what is the best course of action and the school basically saying nothing could be worse than taking him out.

It is odd because I was counselling someone at work today that if work related anxiety is taking over their life and destroying their health then going part time for a bit or even getting signed off for a while would likely be helpful...

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Rainuntilseptember15 · 01/09/2015 23:13

Littlejohnny, do you really not think teacher have been hearing the "facilitator" idea at training courses over the last ten years at least? Most teaching where I am is skills based now not nan out imparting knowledge. I don't think that is a reasonable distinction to make.

Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:13

mrstweet Grin I do worry about party invites....but honestly DD has a massively more packed social dairy than I ever had. School can be a very lonely place too...

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OrionsAccessory · 01/09/2015 23:14

junebirthday if you asked my children (who are home educated) what they did today they'd probably say that they got a bar of chocolate at the shop. Or 'nothing'. Or 'I can't remember'. Many of the same answers I hear from friends kids that do go to school!

We don't follow a curriculum so there isn't any great announcement of What We Will Be Learning Today. Lots of home ed kids learn all the time without the things they learn being categorised and broken down into subjects or learning outcomes. It's very different to school but it certainly doesn't mean children that don't follow a curriculum are neglected.

SuburbanRhonda · 01/09/2015 23:15

if support is needed it should come from those qualified to offer it, not teachers, who have little or no training in child mental health.

So you don't have the TaMHS approach in your area? (Targeted mental health in schools). Or a CAMHS school nurse and/or primary mental health worker attached to schools in your area?

We have all these and it means we are well placed to be part of the team supporting children's mental health in school.

Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:16

rain I am certain that teachers know this stuff...in fact I imagine that knowing what education should be like is the number one thing driving teachers nuts when the insistence of the government on endless testing and assessment totally trashes any possibility of actually applying it.

A teacher would certainly want all the kids in their class to discover the rules of addition for themselves at their own speed and in the depth that only comes from discovering something for yourself...right up until their job hangs on all their class being able to answer 7+3= by the end of year 1 at which point drilling number bonds suddenly looks appealing....

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Original poster
IceBeing · 01/09/2015 23:18

orions you mean you don't announce todays learning objectives at breakfast? Shock

I am pretty sure most school kids respond that they learnt 'nothing' on an average day at school too...doesn't make it true!

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