To ask for my dd to move classes

[Jillonthehill]

Ok, firstly I should say I am not a controlling parent that tries to engineer my children's lives. I am really not! I have never had an issue with my other 2 children's classes. I am not complainer and usually I would just tell my kids to get on with things.

DD is a normal happy sociable child, but I am concerned that she is feeling left out at school. There are 2 classes in each year group divided by age within the year group. The class she is in has just 7 girls in. I started to notice in reception that DD was not invited to things with these girls. She does get invited to boys parties but is always left out by the girls. Now going into year 2 dd has started to notice herself and is getting upset by it.

I recently joined facebook and have been on all mums from the class night out and it now all makes sense. The mums of these girls went to school together and are all really good friends since childhood. Several of them holiday together have regular get togethers.

I have done the usual things - dd has had a party and girls over to play but the invitations are never reciprocated to DD.

I feel DD would be better in the other class where there are more girls to mix with and hopefully less of a clique.

I know as dd's birthday is not even close to the deadline for the other class the headteacher will be against the move but I just dont want dd going through the next 5 years of primary school being left out. WIBU to demand a move.

Thanks Sallyhasleftthe building, at the moment I dont think there is any bullying, she isjust being left out. BUT my I am concerned (i wont explain the issue as it could identify my daughter) but for reasons of appearance my dd is different as I worry that she could be an easy bullying target in the future. So all the more important that she does not have her confidence knocked.

It was a brave decision Sally... to split up twins - have you had any regrets about moving dd?

Sympathy op similar here. Very surprised dd2 having social issues as she's confident and "good value" plays beautifully with random kids and her sisters friends. But the girls in her class are in tight gangs and aren't really that nice. She has male friends in the class but I worry that if she invests in these friendships she will suffer when there is the boy girl split as they get older. Have also considered asking for her to be moved but know will be an uphill battle. Good luck!

Thanks Kerala sounds like your dd and mine are similar. Its so frustrating.

YANBU.

So many people have reservations about home educating due to the limited social interaction, which would indicate that most people consider the social side of being at school as equally important to the educational aspect.

So, yes, definitely push for her to be moved to the other class as there is no point in her having a miserable school experience if it can be avoided.

I wouldn't assume that boy girl friendships will be lost...I maintained them all through school.

Couldn't abide the bitchy gang girls.

Don't you also worry that moving classes will break up the friendships she has formed with the boys?

It is a shame she doesn't know my nephew...there is strong probability of a frozen party in his near future...he won't be parted from his elsa costume.

I would try a gentle nudge of the other girls parents...in a classic 'did you mean to be so rude' mn style. They may simply be so self involved they haven't noticed what they are doing...and even the odd invite would redress the balance a little....or they may be total knobs about it, in which case you haven't lost anything.

Consider suggesting your Dd befriend a boy or two? Not all boys are football obsessed. Boys and girls can be friends and find common ground even/especially at this age.

Our primary mixed up the two classes in Year 4; everyone complained but it worked really well to give some children the chance to make new friendships. The HT was the one who orchestrated it - this is to the poster who thought no HT cared about socializing...of course she is in school to make friends as well as have an education. People move their children from schools for less than that..

Oh Jill I felt so sad that your little girl didn't get an invite to the Frozen party and they were all talking about it. You mention something about her appearance - or difference - maybe a different race - I don't know, but is that the reason she is being left out, rather than anything else. Kids are so horrid sometimes about differences. My wise DIL is a Deputy Head at primary school and she always says that parents need to ensure that their children have the skills to cope with whatever comes along in life, and she's carried this out with my DGD who was having trouble with a particular girl when she was at primary.

You sound a lovely mom and I think raising your DD's self esteem by out of school clubs would be a good move. I think as far as friendships are concerned girls are worse than boys and can be emotional bullies whereas boys are more likely to be physical bullies. A generalisation I know. Do hope your little girl finds girls who are nice enough to be her friend.

My DB was young in his year and had this all the time. He was always in the composite class with the younger kids. There were only 4/5 boys of his own year group and one of them was a poisonous little bully who ruled the roost and made my DB miserable. I think it's a crap system and bad for the younger kids as they don't have the opportunity to become friends with the whole year group and are limited to this small little group. I think their development and education would be better if they were in with the older ones and encouraged to catch up.

As for the HT above saying children are at school to be educated and not interested in promoting the social, emotional and personal development of each child, well, words fail me. You shouldn't be working with children!

I dont think at the moment it is to do with dd's physical appearance. I genuinely just think it is a tight knit group. (I was a bit dosey and slow to spot this dynamic - I work so mostly dont do the school run, so it took me until she had been in the school 18 months before the penny started to drop that she was being left out).

She is in the younger class but is quite bright so would be able to cope academically in the older group.

Children are at school to be educated and from your OP it appears you are more concerned about your child's social life and not her learning

Obviously learning is the main purpose of school but we are talking about children here, for whom the knock on effect of being isolated and unhappy will often be a downturn in their learning - it's not rocket science.

You have my sympathy OP, and other PP's in similar circumstances. My DD is going into Yr 6 this week and turns 11 very soon. After her lost solid friendship drifted apart at the beginning of Year 3, she made some other friends, both boys and girls but none of them really 'stuck', In Year 4, despite and episode of bullying she managed to acquire 2 male friends, who are lovely and great fun but...one has just changed school and the other has been put in a different class and will be moving overseas at the end of the year.

They have mixed up the classes as well as changing teachers for the third year running and gone from 3 days transition at the end of term, to just 2 hours in their new class at the beginning of July . There are girls she knows in the class and is on good terms with but they have known each other since pre-school and are an established group.

DD is absolutely distraught - I've had her up until midnight in floods of tears, saying that she hates school, can't wait to leave for secondary next year and there's no point working hard for her SAT's because she's so upset she'll do it all wrong anyway (probably a touch of the drama llama there admittedly!) - I know my daughter (arguably much better than the SMT who made these decisions as they've only been there a year following academisation) and this is not her at all.

However, I'm not asking for her to be moved at the moment as she has a great teacher and I think a little space between her and her best friends before he goes away may make it easier for her in the long run. I just hope it pays off as the school seem to have a similar attitude to the HT quoted above all about the results and box ticking, never mind that there's small humans involved, and my requests for a little extra support with transition for her have so far been largely disregarded.

Sorry OP - that was a huge rant - it's weighing heavily at the moment with school starting Thursday and I did have a rant on the school's website last night after they posted a request for parents to 'model a positive attitude to the changes as this can be an anxious time for the children' .

FWIW I would say there is absolutely no harm in asking, but be prepared for a no. Outside clubs are a good idea, as not only might she meet different children but she may be able to socialise with some of the girls in her class in smaller quantities (i.e. if just a couple of them go to Brownies) and find her way into the group that way if that is what she wants. Don't discount the boys either - DD's male friends are really awesome, although she does occasionally need a girl to confide in now she's a bit older.

I hope you managed to get it sorted and sorry for the hijack!

My eldest son was bullied in primary which is why I made my original post above. It started in year 4 and continued right through primary and into year 7 at high school.

It started exactly like this - with exclusion. And it continued due to a shit head who refused to believe there was a problem with her perfect school. I'm saddened to see that post up thread from a head teacher who clearly doesn't recognise how bullying starts.

The best thing that happened to my son was when (at high school) he moved class to be with his best friend. He has since blossomed and is super confident and happy.

We also did loads of clubs (since before he was bullied abd after) - swimming, beavers, gymnastics, rugby, trampolining and karate. The best by far though was dance and drama (bizarrely! I would have thought karate or rugby would have been best). He really took to drama and became his "thing".

I really don't want to worry you as I realise your not at this stage yet. But equally I don't want you to find your daughter in this position.

Thanks Wyrd.. seems like you know exactly what I am worrying about. I hope it works for your dd, year 6 is such an important year xxx

Thanks Jill

Having spent the whole day at work today worry about it and ranting to a few select colleagues I have come home to find that she's had a good ponder and decided to see it as an opportunity to 'add some new friends to my collection' .

How long this positivity lasts remains to be seen, but she likes school on the whole so fingers crossed it will pan out OK not sure I can cope with too many nights the one I mentioned above.

It is sooo hard when you have to see your kids struggle and put a brave face on for their sake. I think you're doing the right thing in trying to address it now before the issues become any more evident to your DD (the Frozen thing was horrid ) and hopefully you won't get to the stage we're at.

I have spent so much time kicking myself as all the kids she was friendly with at nursery, including her BFF went to another primary, but we opted for the one nearest to our home on the grounds that there was no guarantee of such early friendships lasting. Obviously she and BFF are still thick as thieves even though we only usually see them in the holidays and her mum is one of my closest friends. I'm basing secondary school choice at least 50% on the fact they'll be back under the same roof I'm totally honest .

wyrdbird totally get where you're coming from. The main reason my son's got a group of friends now are that I've "chosen "them for him. Obviously, he doesn't see it that way as he's got a good group of really nice friends. BUT I was really good friends with the mums so it was to a certain extent "engineered" .

He has other friends that are part of the group but he was definitely engineered into it - by me and my friends. They were friends to start off with but my son ended up a bit outside the group (due to aspergers) so it's not as bad as it sounds. They're all 15 year old boys and have no idea how they were manipulated into the situation - but they were and for that I'm eternally grateful!

I'd ask. Nothing to lose. My mum asked for me back in the early 80's and the school agreed.

"I would say no as an HT. Children are at school to be educated and from your OP it appears you are more concerned about your child's social life and not her learning"

Good grief, I hope you're not really a head teacher. Sympathy obviously isn't your strong point, nor the ability to see the whole child.

I've never heard of a year group divided by age, it's usually by ability as much as they try to sugar coat the issue. Lots of schools split purely on age so they don't have lots of arguments with parents about how their child should be in the 'brighter' class!

OP, ask but be prepared for the HT to say no, some will, some will listen and agree.

Oh, and to the poster who said they were a HT - I really hope you're not!! Education and school is about so much more than the academic and you of all people should know that.

Good grief, I hope you're not really a head teacher

I'd hardly say I was an HT if I wasn't!

There is nothing in the OP to suggest the child is underachieving at school due to the class they are in. The OP is worried her child has not been invited to parties. There is also no guarantee moving class will bring more party invites. It's impossible to move children if classes are full to capacity and I certainly wouldn't be moving children around for the sake of party invitations. There is scope to foster friendships in the playground with other pupils during lunch times, play times as well as out of school activities.

We have classes spli by age. It has nothing to do with ability. If asked our ht would sa no. Partly because as soon as you allow one parent to move everyone wants to move and its a bloody nightmare! We had one parent kick up a fuss at the end of last year when she found out classes and threatened to leave if her kid wasn't moved. She's gone else where.
The other reason we wouldn't do it is because your dd doesn't actually sound like she is being left out at school and that it is only parties etc. At that age parents organise their children's social lives so actually your problem is the parents not the children! As she gets older she will start arranging more things herself.

Murfles how sad that, as a HT, you seem unable to take a more holistic approach to the education of children.

OP, Fortunately for us, DD's HT understood that her class wasn't the right 'fit' for her and moved her as she herself had also noticed that DD was being isolated. But then she took a great deal of interest in the emotional wellbeing of her schoolchildren and how it affected all aspects of schooling. She didn't see them as numbers to get results as soon sadly seem to. It was the best possible outcome for DD and she flourished in her new class. Ask, you have nothing to lose.

I strongly recommend taking action now op.
We had a similar problem when my dd was in yr 5/6. We moved to a new area and a very small school for work reasons. The class consisted of 5 girls (including dd) and 20 boys. For the 18mths my dd attended the school she was not invited to a single party, clubs were made up of the same children - v remote area. I did everything I could to encourage friendships just as you have op to effect.
This problem had a negative impact on my daughter and I do think it impacted on dd academic and non-academic achievements during this period.

We have moved twice since then and the situation has never reoccurred in the 3 schools she has attended since.

I hope things improve for you and dd op, Yanquis.

*some.

Good grief, Murfles! Can you really not see that it's not all about party invitations?! The social aspect of school is a very important issue that can have far reaching consequences. I don't see how it is any less important than the educational side tbh.

Ds's school mix all classes after reception and reserve the right to mix at the end of each year. This is basically to break up clicques/ toxic friendship groups and "socially rebalance". Not feasible in this instance due to the age split, but I know the parents at Ds's school are very positive about it, so maybe more schools should consider it.

I think social stuff is so important at school, and feeling like you dont fit in is horrible even if there's no outright bullying.