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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that teachers should have a sound grasp of spelling and grammar?

129 replies

2kidsintow · 31/08/2015 19:29

I know this is a forum, and that punctuation is used to a greater or lesser extent by various posters because of the more informal nature of the media and that auto-corect can be responsible for a lot of errors if you don't proof read. However, I'm surprised at posts I've read that have garmmatical errors in. The one that sticks in my head at the moment is the 'you and I' rule. A few teacher posters had put 'me and my colleague' or 'me and my boss' on a thread I've just been reading. Is it dialect in some areas to use this phrasing, or just incorrect?

OP posts:
rollonthesummer · 07/09/2015 09:31

I would have thought that the competition for teaching positions was sufficiently robust

Has the current recruitment and retention problem passed you by completely!?

Bottlecap · 07/09/2015 09:39

Has the current recruitment and retention problem passed you by completely!?

I suppose it has. A quick google search set me straight. I was under the impression (from MN) that school-hour jobs were fairly sought-after.

rollonthesummer · 07/09/2015 09:48

I was under the impression (from MN) that school-hour jobs were fairly sought-after

They probably are.

I don't think teaching counts as one of those though. I'm at work from 7am until 6pm on the days I teach.

Bottlecap · 07/09/2015 09:59

rollonthesummer I've just gone back and re-read your posts. Why are your colleagues leaving?

rollonthesummer · 07/09/2015 10:29

It's mostly to do with the huge increase in unnecessary paperwork/red tape and the 'harassment' (in the name of observations/book scrutinies/learning walks) by SMT making the job untenable.

Bottlecap · 07/09/2015 10:45

Oh. What's the SMT? What jobs do they go on to, if any?

FuzzyWizard · 07/09/2015 11:11

Teaching is not a school hours job. It is a term-time only job but it is isn't school hours. How long you have to stay in the school building will vary from school to school but anyone leaving by 4pm more than one night a week will be doing a lot of work at home. Even our TAs finish at 5pm 2 nights per week.

LindyHemming · 07/09/2015 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rollonthesummer · 07/09/2015 12:24

SMT=senior management team.

Some who left have been fortunate enough to have husbands that supported them financially so they didn't intend to work any more (these are ladies in their early 50s, not especially close to retirement).

Others have gone onto supply where they have more flexibility and will downright refuse to take on long-term cover involving assessment/observations. They have loads of work as schools around here have teachers dropping like flies and can get in at 8 and leave at 5 without 90 books to double mark, stick in learning objectives, assess etc. Supplies are often told to just tick word and write 'supply' which takes a fraction of the time than the ridiculous reams that class teachers are expected to do.

One has started 11+ tutoring, though this is all after school/weekends which is a pain where seeing her children are concerned. Another couple have taken on jobshare roles where they are doing the same but for 50% of the time which is more tolerable. 2 took early retirement and another works for a charity.

This isn't a 'woe is me, teaching is the worst job in the world' post at all by the way. I just wanted to point out that the standards in applicants for teaching jobs may be shocking due to the miserable state of teaching at the moment. Heads round here have advertised the same jobs for months-clearly no-one is applying and they have to take what's on offer. If some can't spell, it's perhaps symptomatic of a deeper problem.

Marynary · 07/09/2015 13:46

Doesn't it depend on what they teach and who they teach. For example, while it might be important for a primary school teacher to be good at grammar I don't think it is a big deal for a secondary school maths or science teacher.

LindyHemming · 07/09/2015 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

multivac · 07/09/2015 14:01

"I don't think it is a big deal for a secondary school maths or science teacher"

Completely disagree; every teacher is a teacher of literacy.

Flowerpower41 · 07/09/2015 14:32

It is just a sad indictment of the dumbing down of the British education system.

God I do sound old - I am only 51 I sound 100!!

Narp · 07/09/2015 17:59

Flower

Really, the fact that someone on an internet forum uses a colloquial, informal form of speech is dumbing down?

LindyHemming · 07/09/2015 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bottlecap · 07/09/2015 18:16

Whether this is an indictment of the British educational system is anyone's guess, but I suspect very few people consciously shift between the proper and improper use of me/I (for example).

If you speak proper English, isn't improper English an affectation? I don't accept that it's a colloquialism.

FuzzyWizard · 07/09/2015 18:30

Possibly- it's clear however that some of those criticising "incorrect" usage of "me" and "I" don't know what the correct usage is. Some (possibly including the OP who hasn't clarified) appear to believe that "me and x" or "x and me" are always incorrect.

Narp · 07/09/2015 19:11

Bottle

I come from a working class Essex background. I am highly educated and speak grammatically (in the main) and always write grammatically in formal situations.

But I might say 'Me and my friends are going to the park; want to come?' to someone in person, or on a forum. If you judge that then so be it.

DepecheNO · 07/09/2015 19:46

I think at the very least teachers should be able to spell the keywords in their own subject area, or else double check when writing them on the board. My GCSE Geography teacher was great, but his inability to spell disadvantaged his pupils, the majority of whom were in low sets for English and had had it drummed into them that the way the teacher spells something is probably right!

Marynary · 07/09/2015 19:58

I don't think it is a big deal for a secondary school maths or science teacher

Completely disagree; every teacher is a teacher of literacy.

That is rubbish. My daughter's maths A level teacher needs to teach her maths not literacy and I couldn't care less whether the teacher is good at grammar.

Bottlecap · 07/09/2015 20:19

I come from a working class Essex background. I am highly educated and speak grammatically (in the main) and always write grammatically in formal situations.

But I might say 'Me and my friends are going to the park; want to come?' to someone in person, or on a forum. If you judge that then so be it.

Narp, my judgements hardly matter. If you're offering your WC background by way of explanation, then you're only reinforcing class distinctions.

echt · 07/09/2015 21:02

I don't think it is a big deal for a secondary school maths or science teacher

Completely disagree; every teacher is a teacher of literacy.

That is rubbish. My daughter's maths A level teacher needs to teach her maths not literacy and I couldn't care less whether the teacher is good at grammar.

Multivac is right and you won't find any educational endeavour or research that differs, marynary. Every subject teacher has particular aspects of literacy, that apply to their subject. An aspect of mathematics would be the wording of problems. It''s very common for students to be fine with formulae, but when presented with a worded problem, that requires the application of a formulae, many are stumped because they don't know how to read the problem. This is why they need completely literate teachers who can teach the reading of their subject.

By valuing correct expression, literacy levels can be raised across a school when pupils see that it matters everywhere, not just in the English classroom.

echt · 07/09/2015 21:02

Formula, not formulae.

Marynary · 07/09/2015 21:27

Multivac is right and you won't find any educational endeavour or research that differs, marynary. Every subject teacher has particular aspects of literacy, that apply to their subject. An aspect of mathematics would be the wording of problems. It''s very common for students to be fine with formulae, but when presented with a worded problem, that requires the application of a formulae, many are stumped because they don't know how to read the problem. This is why they need completely literate teachers who can teach the reading of their subject.

Obviously students need to be able to read in order to answer questions in any subject. That doesn't mean that an A level maths teacher needs to be brilliant at spelling and grammar in order to be good maths teacher.Hmm

Catsize · 07/09/2015 21:31

Catsize is it the order that bothers you? Would The coffee at work distresses my manager and me be okay by you?

My Granny and me picture frames? Is it me going first that you don't like?

Euphemia, 'My Granny and me' would be fine, as would 'my manager and me'.

Funnywizard, this is all news to me. I have just one a few online checks to see if the rules have changed, but can't see that they have. I would be really keen to see a link to something to suggest I am wrong.