To think that teachers should have a sound grasp of spelling and grammar?

[2kidsintow]

I know this is a forum, and that punctuation is used to a greater or lesser extent by various posters because of the more informal nature of the media and that auto-corect can be responsible for a lot of errors if you don't proof read. However, I'm surprised at posts I've read that have garmmatical errors in. The one that sticks in my head at the moment is the 'you and I' rule. A few teacher posters had put 'me and my colleague' or 'me and my boss' on a thread I've just been reading. Is it dialect in some areas to use this phrasing, or just incorrect?

"you and I" is a horrible 19th century latin "rule" which is completely unnatural, so it's used purely as a tool to beat people. Horrible use of language, which is meant to be for communication.

Teaching children to be comfortable and accommodating in language is much more important than getting them to feel superior because of some rule. Especially when they are as likely to be talking to a fluent English speaker using entirely correct grammar or spelling for them, that just happens to be different to the current English grammar.

We all need to speak to native English speakers from US, Canadian, Australian, South African, Indian and more, as well as fluent English speakers as a second language from even more places. Understanding and accommodating rather than being sensitive to their differences will help people more.

Incidentally Theycallmemellowjello, surely proofread is a "horrible Americanism" that didn't make it into British English until after the 2nd world war?

OP, the examples you give as being incorrect aren't necessarily so because they need to be part of a sentence so we can better judge what's niggling you, e.g. "the man was rude to me and my colleague/ me and my boss" are both correct.

However, "My boss and were I/ my colleague and I were rude to the man" are also correct.

You see what I did there? "However, "My boss and I/my colleague were rude to the man" is more like it.

The "You and I" rule is, frankly, moribund in most informal English. It's a marker of higher-register English, not the spoken/informal English you'd find in a post on mn. The marked high-register nature of the phrase also accounts for its frequent misuse in phrases like "between you and I" etc. If a teacher used it incorrectly in a piece of formal writing like a report or in pupil feedback, I'd question their ability with the written standard. But if they used it in a post on mn, I wouldn't notice, let alone care being honest (I've almost certainly done it myself.) Idiolectal variation is part of the rich tapestry of real languages.

But it really boils my piss when people write "ect" for "ect.", or mix up "it's" and "its". Ffs, this is basic spelling and punctuation.

This is the most ironic thread I've read.

Euphemia, I meant ect for etc. I'm going to have to kill myself from sheer embarrassment and humiliation now.

English is my second language. I am dyslexic. My grammar and spelling are appalling. I am a teacher. I don't teach English in fairness. My results were some of the best in the country this year. I like to think I have many other qualities that make up for what I lack in other ways. I think I get one smart comment a year and I point to my results and educational achievements in reply. Kids love me, and I love them and what I do.

I know it is different, as these are not teachers, but when I picked up DD from nursery it said on her daily report: 'DD is learning how to frow a ball'. She was under 2, so I wasn't too bothered, just astounded. I still am.

I have noticed, that people don't seem to know the difference between
were and where. How can they go all the way through school, and it isn't corrected.

I've seen a few glaring errors over the years in my child's school/work books. I apply a specific rule to each before I judge. That is, is the likelihood high that this error was made about midnight while the teacher was trying to do a million other school related things.

I only had one incident that pissed me right off with a shitty misspelling in my child's book. And I brought this up at parents evening simply because it was the end of a long year of shitty teaching, lying to parents and I'd had enough.

Anyone for who/whom? Talk about moribund.

I still vividly remember my English teacher correcting my spelling in a story I wrote about somebody riding a horse. She crossed out 'reins' and wrote 'reigns'.

'My boss and me' could be correct, depending on the sentence.

I don't care how dyslexic anyone is. However, if it means you can't teach age appropriate English reading, spelling and writing skills in your subject, you should not be teaching. Every teacher is a teacher of Literacy.

I think on here it is so easy to make typos but in real life teachers need to be able to use English accurately and skillfully- they are role models- and teach it, whatever their subject is. You can't compensate for that.

I do notice that in our school we have several staff who would not get a C grade at GCSE now. They are embarrassed themselves by their written English. They are all in their early/mid 30s. Two are ICT teachers and one is an Art teacher.

Are you the op charleydavidson? Your posts read as if you are

I do notice that in our school we have several staff who would not get a C grade at GCSE now. They are embarrassed themselves by their written English. They are all in their early/mid 30s

In my school, the ones with poor English are in their twenties.

Are you the op charleydavidson? Your posts read as if you are

I thought the same!

Yes, teachers should know these things. However, many teachers are leaving the profession. The best way to attract and retain good-quality teachers would be to improve conditions and pay.

I can write perfectly correctly. But only bother when it's actually necessary. It doesn't interest me enough to make the effort, nor do I write often enough that I produce perfectly constructed grammatically correct etc on autopilot. Somewhere like here I type as it comes into my head and don't proof read. Even for teachers it depends what they're teaching. I'd expect excellent English grammar from an English teacher when it comes to teaching my child, and to an extent any subject where writing plays a huge part. But tbh I'd far prefer a maths or physics teacher with the literacy skills of an average 8yr old and excellent knowledge of their subject, over someone who'd scraped a c in maths and English.

Yy dodo. I had martingale changed to Martin- Gale. I hated my English teacher though as she was generally crap and as a result spent many years happily throwing horsey terms into any possible piece of work and smugly correcting her when she decided they were either spelt or used incorrectly.

It is entirely unreasonable to say a dyslexic teacher shouldn't be allowed to teach. If nothing else what a great example for children with dyslexia.
What other jobs should disabled people be ruled out of?

(And yes I know that sentence is not a great example!)

However, many teachers are leaving the profession. The best way to attract and retain good-quality teachers would be to improve conditions and pay

I very much agree with this.

7 good teachers left my school last year and 6 have gone this year-they had been completely ground down and just had enough. They all either took early retirement or left the profession completely.

They were the bright, enthusiastic, motivated and inspirational ones. They were also the ones that could spell and use grammar correctly!

The NQT we had replacing one of these teachers in the classroom next door to me didn't appear to know the difference between 'we were' and 'we was'.