To think that some aspects of Christianity are scary and sexist

[FlibbertigibbetArmadillo]

My friend's cousin has posted, and is staunchly defending this article on facebook

[http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/should-women-be-police-officers]

I don't think I really realised before just how a sexist modern Christianity can be.
The gist of the article is that a woman shouldn't really be a police officer because she would have to give orders to men and that threatens their manhood and isn't a very womanly thing to do
Aibu, or should I have realised this before?

As far as I can see, this represents only the views of one person, an American pastor with his own interpretation of the Bible, and his own church (possibly of the God-fearing Bible-bashing Creationist variety, who knows?).

I don't think that most sensible Christians would take any notice of what he says, to be honest.

'There are many instances in the gospels where Jesus empowered and uplifted women in a way which was counter-cultural.'
Great quote MamaMary

There are many instances in the gospels where Jesus empowered and uplifted women in a way which was counter-cultural.

MamaMary could you give me an example please?

'20Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.”

22Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.'

Bear in mind that women who are bleeding are not supposed to be in physical contact with anyone in that culture.

'And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.'

Jesus has risen from the dead, appears first to women and makes them the ones to announce it to all the other followers.

Lots of more theologically literate MNers will post others.

Both Jesus and Paul were hugely liberating to women. Poor old Paul always gets shouted down for his abhorrent sexism but he said a heck of a lot of stuff which upheld women. Praised women in leadership in churches, gave women freedom to learn the scriptures where before they'd been prevented from doing so by the menz. The obvious passages are always reeled out, bypassing the other ones which contradict - it's where hermeneutics comes into play.

I'd say some people are sexist and scary. Some Christians are and some denominations are. But Christianity, I would passionately contend, is not and is far from being so.

I'm a christian feminist and church leader :)

Afaik (according to my old job, which involved dealing with high-up people in the C of E), the main objection to women bishops was that men didn't want to be told what to do by women. So, yes, some Xtians are scary and sexist. I don't see how this is a surprise to anyone.

Yes Christianity is sexist at heart. Not the teachings of Jesus, but Christianity. Same goes for Islam and Judaism too though. I found this pic on twitter, I hope it posts - but it's a priest, a rabbi and a muslim cleric (?) with their feet resting on a naked woman. The caption translates as "Well, at least we agree on the essentials."

twitter.com/stephane1peu/status/523786483678064641

I'd say some people are sexist and scary. Some Christians are and some denominations are. But Christianity, I would passionately contend, is not and is far from being so.

But how do you separate 'Christianity' from its component parts? Particularly the Christian denominations?

But Christianity, I would passionately contend, is not and is far from being so.

Christianity began with Catholicism and it still makes up a huge percentage of Christians, and it's massively sexist. Women from my mother's generation were essentially thrown in jail for having sex (read: often raped) outside marriage, while the men got off scot-free. And that's just the tip of the sexist iceberg. It's indefensible.

In the town I used to live in the local Baptist church has a massive following (has to have services in school hall as too many followers to fit in church). I attended the dedication of a friend's child which took place during the service. I was pleasantly surprised at how modern it was, how welcoming, how interesting the sermon was even for an atheist. Then my friends were called up for the dedication and we were all asked to pray that male friend would have the strength to lead his new family as "head of the family" and (my incredibly intelligent, independent) female friend would follow his leadership and support him. Um no.

The dowager, in the C of E, that kind of attitude is unacceptable now. Christians now are not responsible for the attitudes of Christians 50 years ago. There is an argument that society was sexist 50 years ago but people don't come and make scathing generalisations about society nowadays based on that.

The C of E is moving with the times as much as it can (some 50 year old attitudes are preventing things changing sadly). Give it a few years and gay marriage will be legal in a church and quite rightly so. The rate of change since 1970 has been almost exponential. Women priests and Bishops would have been unthinkable 50 years ago.

Regarding the separation of Christianity from its component parts, just consider the denominations, then everyone withing that denomination has a slightly different view. Bit like society really!

Religion is God's word corrupted by humans.

The teachings of Jesus are not sexist or misogynistic, not homophobic or elitist. The world Jesus was born into was, and He was a breath of fresh air who was all about love and people, and not about strict religious laws.

I am a Christian. By that I mean I believe that Jesus taught the best way to live together as people. His teachings challenge injustice, oppression, intolerance. He taught us to love each other, respect each other, to feed the poor and look after the weak. He spoke against racism and elitism. He turned everything on its head and made the religious leaders MAD.

And they killed him for it. That's humanity. That's people.

Christianity can feature sexism, racism, intolerance, homophobia, all under the guise of being God's Will. But Christianity is people. And people killed Jesus for healing on the Sabbath, for touching lepers, for suggesting that the strict Jewish laws weren't necessary, for preaching love and equality.

Don't confuse religion with following Christ. Religion is how people have corrupted the Divine.

I usually read the full thread before commenting and am sure that what I am about to say has been said more articulately. I am a Christian and that article doesn't represent the rest of us.

The bible tells us to love and not judge. Jesus was all about tearing down barriers, equality and a bridge to God. He ministered to those who had been ignored and vilified.

I think that certain passages of the bible read in isolation without understanding of the context foster hate and feelings of supremacy.

Any of the religions that believe in the story of Adam and Eve are misogynistic in nature. Eve is set up to be a foolish second class citizen. That doesn't mean all christians are misogynistic and sexist but their religion is built on the basis that Eve got us kicked out of the garden of Eden and pain in childbirth is punishment for that. There is an awful lot of obeying and submitting going on, mostly females obeying men.

There are misogynistic atheists but they don't have an old book that condones this stuff, they're just products of our society.

The problem is ... Jesus is long gone, and it's other people's religions that we're stuck with.

Well said Karaoke

Most Christian denominations have a long history of misogyny and sexism. The actual teachings of Jesus? Not so much.

Most of it goes back to the Nicean council (where things like which writings made it into the bible were decided). At that time Aristotle's philosophy was in vogue, which is incredibly sexist. The idea that divinity can only be reached through the intellect, and the idea that women as emotional and hence less able.

This is all bullshit of course although philosophical works like Plato's Republic where Socrates argues that any differences between the sexes are so minor that women should be allowed to do whatever men do. This was so subversive at the time that the books were destroyed and suppressed.

In terms of really early Christianity (ie before the Roman Church) was likely much more egalitarian, but there are still extant phrases in the bible which indicate this. Mary Magdeline is identified by JC himself as "the apostle of the apostles" so basically his senior student. This obviously doesn't sit well so she is marginalised and even denigrated throughout history. It is even said she was a prostitute, when in actual fact she is only identified as a woman of means.

So yes Christianity today IS marred with sexism and misogyny, and no it wasn't originally and shouldn't be now...

People also re-engineer ideas to fit into modern values. Just because Christianity is currently trying to paint itself as institution that supports equality doesn't mean those are its core values.

I think yes, you're right - but unsurprisingly so, tbh. I think you'd struggle to find many parts of even modern life that don't have sexist elements to them, sadly.

Don't confuse religion with following Christ. Religion is how people have corrupted the Divine.

Isn't that OP's point? It's not that Christ was sexist but that Christianity - the broad religion, the institutions that comprise it - is/are.

Christianity began with Catholicism

Actually, it began with Christ :)

Other instances of Jesus empowering women

• he praises Mary Magdalene for anointing him before his death (with her hair and perfume) and stops the disciples from criticising her
• he tells the other Mary that she is right to sit at his feet and learn alongside the men (unheard of for the time when men and women had separate spheres) and he takes her side when Martha says she should be in the kitchen, saying Mary has 'chosen what is better'

- he travelled with a band of women workers who supported him financially - he stopped a woman being stoned by telling the crowd 'he who has no sin, cast the first stone' - almost his last words/ last thought before he died was for the welfare of his mother

• he went out of his way to speak to and witness to a Samaritan woman at a well (she was a double outcast for being both of the wrong race and wrong sex), and she goes on to convert practically an entire village. Bear in mind even speaking to a woman in public was radical

and as has been mentioned above,

• he makes a point of healing and empowering a woman suffering from a bleeding disease - again an outcast because considered unclean

- and most radical of all, after his death he first appeared to a woman and told her to go and tell the others the good news, making a woman the first person to preach the resurrection of Christ. Bear in mind in Jewish culture of the time, a woman couldn't bear witness in court. So for Jesus to make a woman THE witness of the resurrection was radical.

MamaMary, it's just a pity that Christianity spent two millennia failing to follow Christ's example...

The challenge of Christianity is to try and live up to Jesus' example JassyRadlett. Try not to slag Christians off because they aren't perfect. You aren't perfect either.

So the Old Testament doesn't count at all then?