To think that some aspects of Christianity are scary and sexist

[FlibbertigibbetArmadillo]

My friend's cousin has posted, and is staunchly defending this article on facebook

[http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/should-women-be-police-officers]

I don't think I really realised before just how a sexist modern Christianity can be.
The gist of the article is that a woman shouldn't really be a police officer because she would have to give orders to men and that threatens their manhood and isn't a very womanly thing to do
Aibu, or should I have realised this before?

YANBU. I think in general huge swathes of religion are sexist, homophobic and scary. That said Id like to believe that in the UK most people tend to discount/ignore those parts of their religion i.e wearing two types of fabric. expecting woman/servants to become handmaids, dishing out physical punishments or having same sex relationships are a sin . But imo followers moderating their faith to current social expectations does not make the actual religion itself any less sexist, homophobic or scary.

I think the difference is tha atheists don't preach that they are more moral than others based on a book written by men several thousand/ hundred years ago.

tobysmum77 atheists don't preach? Ye gods, have you never read the BTL comments on a Guardian article?

Harassed I think modifications do make the church less scary. Particularly modifications and "fresh" interpretations from younger and less traditional clergy. The church I go to is incredibly forward thinking, teaches love, tolerance and understanding rather than traditional rules on sex before marriage etc.

Not all individual Christians are though

Agreed, but imo that makes the whole thing harder to fathom.

Btl guardian website comments yes are vile, like any newspaper comments are. Not all will be written by atheists though unless I'm missing something.

Even if they are the comments aren't based on a book of moral truth written 3k years ago though are they?

The article cited in the OP is taken from a notoriously conservative, reactionary wing of fundamentalist American evangelicalism.

It is NOT Christianity.

Atheists don't use atheism as justification for their sexism though.

As another poster said, sexism is interwoven in Christianity - witness woman priests, first woman bishop last November, women not allowed in certain parts of certain churches.

It is also interwoven in Islam and many other religions

Religion is a tool of the patriarchy

mamamary on what basis are you saying they're not Christian?

Problem is, the ultra conservative Evangelicals are increasingly setting the agenda. They're all terribly keen on St Paul (and his ravings teachings on men being head of the family and in charge and women needing to be silent and obedient) and tend to forget Jesus and his altogether more inclusive message.

I agree that many Christians put far too much emphasis on Paul and not nearly enough on Jesus - however I think they also grossly mis-represent and mis-interpret Paul's letters, which were written to specific churches in ancient cultures in a very different context to today.

Hermione, good question. Perhaps I overstated it. I should have said: they may be Christians, but their brand of Christianity is so very far removed from what I interpret to be the Christian message, that I personally regard them as almost following a different religion.

I know quite a bit about the Gospel Coalition fwiw.

I can see your point. I'm always shocked that Christianity has such horrid sexist, homophobic, etc, etc parts. I think of Christianity as pretty normal, although I'm an atheist (and think religion is ridiculous in the most part).

I don't have too much interaction with other religions (just happened like that, not purposely) so see religions like Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, etc as very exotic so wouldn't be shocked to be told of very 'off' aspects of those religions.

To me it's weird that normal people I know are connected with a religion that has such horrid aspects.

Then I remember that there's so many variations of Christianity, some are worse than others (although I think the majority are sexist) and my neighbour or friend doesn't necessarily agree with the horrid aspects of the religion.

mamamary the point I'm trying to make is that unfortunately it is Christianity. It's a conservative, literal interpretation, which is closer to the original than the more inclusive, progressive churches we have today.

Westboro baptist can back up the hideous things they do from their holy text.
Isis can back up the hideous things they do from their holy text.

You clearly belong to a progressive, liberal church that emphasises the New Testament message of love, like friends of mine who are Christian. My Muslim friends are appalled by Isis's brutality. That makes both you and them good people - if everyone was religious in the way you are we'd have no problems in the world.

But unfortunately to say that it's not Christianity/Islam is disingenuous. Muslims believe their text is complete and inviolate, and fundamentalist Christians do too. Unfortunately there's some pretty nasty hateful stuff in both books. Lot giving his Virgin daughters to the mob, for example.

Your second point about Paul's letters being relevant in the time and place they were written is spot on. I think a good chunk of Christianity realises that - Islam needs to do that as well, but they're not there yet. The text remains inviolate.

Christianity does not have sexist aspects.

The way it has been interpreted and practised by men - and still is in some denominations - is undoubtedly sexist.

But the message of Christ was anything but sexist.

Christianity is what it is, jot what it was intended to be and it does have sexist aspects.

I imagine Christ was sexist in many ways. Potentially loving and friendly but still sexist. He wasn't going round demanding equal rights for women was he.

FYI - I don't believe in Christ, so I'm speaking hypothetically

Muslims believe their text is complete and inviolate, and fundamentalist Christians do too.

I can't speak for Muslims, but I think that fundamentalist Christians wilfully ignore the fact that their literal interpretation of the Bible is inconsistent and full of holes. The Bible is a complex, difficult, mysterious book with inherent contradictions - to try and interpret it simply and literally leads to all kinds of problems.

More liberal Christians accept that there are primary doctrines of truth, and that there are secondary issues which should not be forced upon people and which should remain open to debate. Fundamentalists are legalistic in their dogmatic preaching of secondary issues.

He wasn't going round demanding equal rights for women was he.

There are many instances in the gospels where Jesus empowered and uplifted women in a way which was counter-cultural.

I think its true that interpretation is the reason for some of the most extreme sexism. But you can't separate interpretation entirely from 'Christianity' because the views of different denominations shape what Christianity is in reality

"However, to say that Isis aren't Islamic, or westboro baptist aren't Christian is rather missing the point. Vile as they are, they're sticking to a literal interpretation of their core texts. We ignore that fact at our peril. We are going backwards as far as religion is concerned. Twenty years ago I'd have said that it'd all just eventually fade out as people became more secular, but now I'm not so sure. There are clearly vast, vast numbers of people out there who cannot deal with the complexities of life/critical thought about their beliefs and are happier being told exactly what to think/feel and do, with no dissent, doubt or criticism allowed."

Skiptonlass

I think the trouble comes when people try to separate Christianity - as it is practised and how it developed - and what people see as what Christ did. Because there are so many interpretations of what the sacred texts say and mean - and the fact that the source text for Christianity contains 66 books, not just 4 or 5 - that it's a reasonable interpretation that Christianity is an entity distinct from Christ, and one that is rife with discrimination throughout many mainstream denominations.

The OP doesn't say Christians are sexist, she says (some aspects of) Christianity is. The bible has plenty of misogyny right from the get-go. Genesis 3:16 tells us that Eve was so naughty that all womenkind will be punished by God with the pain of childbirth, and they shall be ruled over by their husbands.

The only true interpretation of Gods Word is to be found here:
www.landoverbaptist.net/

The complementarian view of male and female roles isn't exclusive to extreme evangelical Christian churches but they publicise it really well. I heard a nice woman from a local super- successful church, linked to a primary school I briefly considered sending ds to, espousing complementarianism on Radio 4 the other day.

I think as an atheist it's worth saying frequently and loudly how unlike the message of Christianity, that every individual is a child of God without any regard to where or when or to which individuals or with which genitals they were born, the idea of complementarianism is.

Well, I've read the article and gosh it's really sensible! It says obvious things about how men are likely to be upset if women give them orders so therefore cakes.

Nah, I'm joking, it's crap. Loving how it says it's important to stick to dinosaur gender roles. Ignoring crap on Facebook is probably the best way forward. And don't spend your life affirming men either, they can do that kind of thing themselves.

Article represents a fairly minority position for Christianity in the UK. But just because UK churches aren't as misogynistic as that doesn't mean there aren't scary and sexist attitudes espoused by most of them. The difficulty the Church of England had getting Female Bishops approved (and the "out they've had to give to congregations who want to continue to be misogynistic) is a still very current.

I was told by many members of my Methodist church that I shouldn't become a civil engineer because all the men on site would expect me to swear to prove myself and therefore I couldn't be a Christian civil engineer. At Christian youth camp (mainly C of E) we were told that girls should be the gatekeepers around sex to keep our virtue because boys really couldn't help themselves. And there was also a general expectation that I would mould to my husband more than he would mould to me.

So I don't think it's wrong to say that a lot of Christianity is sexist and there are a lot of scary attitudes that hide behind a veneer of righteous belief. It just isn't normally as extreme as this.