To think that if you have any self-respect you go halves?

[Babycham1979]

I've just read this pretty cringey (and very American) article in the Guardian

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/aug/27/dating-men-paying-bill-gender-equality

And can't help but feel sorry for these losers guys. Surely, an expectation that a man pays takes us back a hundred years? Equality means equality.

Where's your self-respect, sisters?!

I think it's very tricky and to an extent depends on the circumstances and the people involved.

If someone asked me out for a drink, I would expect to do alternate rounds.

If someone asked me out for dinner, I would presume that they expected/wanted to pay, however I would certainly happily offer to go halves and if they insisted I would then make sure I paid for post-dinner drinks/taxi.

It's bloody ridiculous really that in 2015 it should even be an issue worth discussing.

If I went out with someone who ordered champagne and lobster, I would have to ask him whether he had enough money to pay for it.

Absolutely!

In each of those cases I think I would have left my share on the table, given the waiter a tip in cash and left the restaurant.

When I was single (back in the Dark Ages), I always paid half. Or we would take turns, I would pay one week and he would pay the next. I wouldn't have accepted any other arrangement. And I am (gasp) American.

It is appalling and cringeworthy in equal measure that women in the 21st century expect men to ask them out and then pay for their dates. Why would anyone want to put herself in such a passive and dependent position? Blech.

Good grief.

Some women only want equality on their terms, and only when it suits them.

We are either equal to men, or we're not. If we are, we should pay our way.

If we don't want to pay our way, and attempt to justify this with nonsense about it being 'romantic' 'old-fashioned' or 'chivalrous', then we are not equal.

I totally agree bonnie. Exactly what I would have written if you hadn't beaten me to it.

BonnieF and PurpleDaisies, what would you have done in the situation above, where a poster saw women on dates having to pay the full bill (seemingly against their wishes)?

YY Bonnie that's it exactly. Too many women people hiding behind "who invites pays" safe in the knowledge that they'll never do the inviting.

There were no situations where the women had to pay - they were just made to feel awkward until they did. Should have done what the poster upthread suggested, paid their share and left.

So you don't think they should have paid the full bill? You think everyone should just pay their half and that's it? Just clarifying here!

I think that paying your share should be the default position and certainly the case for a first date. No one should be expected or assumed to pick up someone else's share, esp on the basis of their gender. Obviously as a relationship develops couples work out their own rules about contributing fairly, turn-taking etc

Unless it was someone I was planning on seeing again I wouldn't have paid the full bill. I'd consider paying it if they were paying next time but if not we'd have had a conversation along the lines of us being in a modern society so bills get split and I'd have paid half. If they were being awkward I would definitely have left my share on the table and walked out.

Corygal - what a pile of self-serving shit.

Had to agree with that.

Oh sod this dating malarky. I'd rather stay single thanks.

I'm do not understand the posters who think accepting a meal gratefully, means losing their self respect, or feeling unsafe or indebted.

Corey, your post answers the question on another thread I saw "why are some men so horrid to women?" Because they've come across women like you maybe... Are you married?

To those that commented on the champagne and lobster thing. I assume that is because of my post. To be fair to my friend, she was asked on the date, he chose the restaurant, he placed the orders. He was clearly an unpleasant person utter cunt wanting a free meal and she is a lovely lovely person who could afford to pay it. He lost out, as far a I can see, she is a gorgeous girl with far too much class to say "can you afford your lobster"...

TheFormidableMrsC if I'd been in your friend's position, I would have paid and I would have been pissed off. Not because I'm against paying for a date, but because he clearly ordered the most expensive things he could and had no intention of paying a penny.

I prefer splitting the bill. I've paid for the full bill on some occasions, others the man has paid but I've got drinks after or paid for the next meal if there is one.

I don't agree that the person asking should pay because the majority of the time men ask women out. That just isnt fair. Maybe that's changed a bit since internet dating really took off but I doubt it has that much.

My DP paid for both our 1st and 2nd dates. I did offer to pay half but he wouldn't have it. After that we took it in turns to pay.

We never went halves. Now it's a joint account so comes from same pot anyway !!

But I would always offer to pay half but if the man insisted on paying I would happily let him. But would absolutely pay the next time.

A colleague of mine is doing serial dating via tindr at moment . If he doesn't pay, she will not see him again.

Which I think is shocking! She's in her twenties though. She'll learn to be more gracious one day

I've never paid anything on any dates , I paid for the odd takeaway when I lived with my ex but does that count ?

I don't think it's lack of class that would make me ask whether he could afford lobster and champagne. If anyone ordered that in a restaurant (knowing they are the most expensive things on the menu) I think it's reasonable to say, "Gosh that's expensive, are you sure you can afford?"

For one thing, if you suspect he has no intention of paying for it, then it tells him clearly he's paying for himself.

I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to do (to ask) - I would do that if I was out with a group of women. Some people will always order more expensive things if they are out with a group of people, knowing that the cost will be shared and I'd always challenge that. It's horrible to think of people abusing others financially.

In your friend's position, TheFormidableMrsC, afford it or not, I wouldn't have paid for him. No way. His intention was to rip her off. I think she could have saved her self-respect, taken the bill to the bar and asked to pay for her own food and drink. Nobody in that restaurant would've blamed her at all.

And the same goes vice versa if it's a woman ordering lobster and champagne, of course.

Brummiegirl15
"A colleague of mine is doing serial dating via tindr at moment . If he doesn't pay, she will not see him again."

How many that have paid has she seen again, and does she pay for the second date, go halves or eat for free?

Excellent, I'm meeting a friend for lunch this week - I can't wait to see her face when I tell her she was the one who invited me so she should pay.

There are reams of threads on here about cocklodgers, and a couple,of comments using the term on this thread. Surely, though, a non-paying woman or especially a fake-reacher, is just advertising herself as a future cuntlodger?

No wonder the relationship boards are full of women asking why they didn't get a second date!!

I wonder what your typical cocklodger does on a first date. Does he show his true colours?

I always pay my way, at times it is not accepted but always offer and not have offer, input my card/cash down to pay

It has been difficult when asked out and taken to somewhere that I can not afford that they have choose and have explained this. They have been happy to pay then and I paid for somewhere more affordable to myself for us both

I am surprised how many men want to pay for everything though sadly some feel it's a trade off