to think that people in this country shouldn't be so poor?

[WitchOfAlba]

It's the 21st century and we still have people who can't afford to heat their houses, who can't afford to eat and can't afford clothes.

Charity shops are too expensive for people on the lowest incomes, food banks are inaccessible to people who work, council tax benefit is not available to people who have saved for their children's future, people are sitting in dark and unheated houses because they can't risk a big electricity or gas bill.

I'm not talking people who are unemployed, though heaven knows it's wrong that they are poor and can't afford things like the above but now it's people who are at work who are also forced into poverty.

Well, it's relative poverty isn't it? So there will always be some people in poverty because of the definition of poverty.

Yes op, basically I don't think we can say the economy is functioning properly while this is the case.
I have voted Conservative in the past because I thought they would have a better grasp of the economy than Labour. Now I tend to feel that no matter what ability they have to manage the economy, if their way of doing it ends up making large numbers of ordinary people including children and disabled and sick people depend on food banks then no matter what the figures say they are really not doing so well.

Yes, it's relative. But not being able to afford food and heating and so on is wrong. I mean, if poverty was not being able to afford satellite television and internet access that would be one thing but we've got people in this country who can't have the basics essential for living a healthy life, people with malnutrition living in unacceptably cold and damp houses.

Ive just seen a thread where a woman had to take the offer of a shower in a stranger from the internet's (MNer) house after having a 3 day fever. She's currently having sex for money to try and get enough money for a deposit on a flat.

YANBU OP.

I think financial advice should be taught as a fundamental life skill, in the same way cookery and sex education should be taught in schools.

What's more frustrating in this country is how everydY items become more expensive to those who are poorer. Gas and electric meters cost a lot more than those able to pay by direct debit, similar story with insurances and even just being able to bulk buy items, you need cash upfront to take advantage of good deals.

YANBU at all, OP. The fact that we give away millions in aid while there are working people here who can't afford to feed themselves is pretty disgusting, actually.

Somebody I know is working full time and earning only a few hundred a year more than they were earning 15 years ago so in real terms they are much, much worse off.

All in favour of raising the minimum wage then?

It's also more expensive to be poor. If you have money, you can afford long-lasting shoes and clothes. You can afford to pay bills by direct debit (which is cheaper than a meter). You can afford to bulk-buy food and to buy expensive products that last longer and fill you up.

If you're poor, you have to buy £10 shoes because you can't afford to save up for the £40 ones. Which means you have to replace them regularly. Which costs more. Buying the cheaper option is normally a false economy, but if you only have £20 a week to live on, you can't afford to save for the better quality stuff.

All in favour of raising the minimum wage then?

Yes. And getting rid of BTL landlords (private letting altogether actually)

some are poor because they have genuine problems, others cause they can't manage money well. I've got a load of relatives who just cannot save money - if they get some they spend it - holidays, fags, keyboards they never use and can't play, a 4th guitar. thats why when something unexpected happens they are broke.

Comfy the minimum wage should be higher but people who are earning more than that an hour are not always getting a living wage. I mean, you can be on say £8 an hour and working the maximum hours on offer in a zero hours contract and not have enough to feed your family.

Googoo yes re the shoes, and clothes. It's OK buying a pair of £10 shoes and wearing them day in day out, same for cheap t-shirts, if you have two t-shirts and two skirts and wear them alternate days then they don't last for long. Like you say, there is no opportunity to save up to buy better quality ones. It's come to something when charity shops charge more money than cheap clothes shops like Peacocks but that's a whole other thread about sweat shops I expect.

Don't get me started on the price in charity shops

I agree with you - we shouldn't have poverty here but we do. There are real slums in the UK and even if you do work doesn't mean you won't be on your arse. It's the kids in these families that I worry for.

Comfy I actually think the minimum wage has had a negative impact, it's become a glass ceiling for the low earners, a minimum and maximum wage all in one.

Agree that some people are just bad with money, but a lot of families genuinely struggle. Working full-time at minimum wage doesn't bring in a lot of money and two full-time working adults on minimum wage could easily struggle to feed themselves if they live in an expensive area with high rent costs. And that's before you add children and childcare into the mix.

A lot of is a postcode lottery. And people can't afford to uproot themselves to a cheaper area without the guarantee of a job/house etc.

I agree, it's completely shit that if your well off your dc have more of a chance to do well in life then if you were poor. It's a horrible cycle and very unfair. Our country is run by public school boys that voted themselves an 11% pay rise of public funds whilst other public sector workers got a 1% rise which put against rising living costs isn't a rise at all.

I probably pay more tax then Starbucks. Amazon and boots all together. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It's expensive to be poor!

But even poor people have tvs, washing machines, games consoles,iPhones ect where as 50 years ago you would be lucky to have carpet.

That's why I joined the labour party to vote for corbyn. It needs to be fairer. We talk about benefit claimants abusing the system but the same paper with that all over the headlines have their accounts offshore abusing the system to!

But even poor people have tvs, washing machines, games consoles,iPhones ect where as 50 years ago you would be lucky to have carpet.

Some poor people might but I know of poor people who have no TV (it broke and they can't afford to replace it), no iPhone but a very basic phone without a camera and no carpets. They do have a Nintendo Wii though, not that they can use it.

brandnewand.... though some of its also around not making the best of what you have and grabbing opportunities - we have a great school just down the road where i moved my son for 6th form. Very few kids moved here though, mainly i believe because they didn't want to change schools and lose their friendships. I assume their parents didn't want the same arguements over this that we had in our house

witch I think bright house has a lot to answer for.

I was a teen single parent and care leaver. I moved into my council flat at 17 and had £1500 to paint it, furnish it fully inc floors and curtains. It didn't get completely done until I finished college and got a job (and then got into debt as I had no clue how to manage money and went ridiculously over the top on clothes and Xmas). When my nan and grandad got married and moved into their council house they didn't have flooring, washing machines and my grandad always worked.

It was ok to be poor years ago as everyone was in the same boat, now we all want the best of everything to keep up with the Jones.

YY PoppyBlossom Tue 25-Aug-15 14:08:48
This is the ridiculous conundrum.

the less you can afford to pay the more you have too for rents, mortgages and so on, its utter wicked maddness.

i have poor bank rating for me to go on mortgage means we would have to pay far higher interest rates.maddess.

But even poor people have tvs, washing machines, games consoles,iPhones ect where as 50 years ago you would be lucky to have carpet

well sure, but that's besides the point, humans have become vastly more prosperous over time, no one should have to feel grateful merely for the fact that they live above the level of basic subsistence

we are a wealthy country, there is enough to go round, if we only could find a way to an economic system which divides things up in an equitable sort of way

those public school boys aren't going to hand over the reigns without a fight though

Some poor people might but I know of poor people who have no TV (it broke and they can't afford to replace it), no iPhone but a very basic phone without a camera and no carpets. They do have a Nintendo Wii though, not that they can use it

I know of a family who is not poor Dh has a good job but the house has no carpets, looks deprived - no pictures on walls old 70's furniture and NO TV. No TV no carpets, but they do have an ipad one - which they can take turns on for limited time, no fancy phones and basic holidays.

those public school boys aren't going to hand over the reigns without a fight though

I suppose your also including labour in that remark too, since its under Labour the gap widened?

IThink
I was making a more general point, ie that (reagrdles of which party are in charge) the people with wealth and power are the ones who get to run things, because of their erm...wealth and power

But even poor people have tvs, washing machines, games consoles,iPhones ect where as 50 years ago you would be lucky to have carpet

Most of it is on tick with Very high intrest rates