Feel stuck in the middle of friends- WWYD

[jacks11]

There are 4 of us in a close circle of friends (since uni), although we aren't all living that close to each other anymore we do talk reasonably often and try to see each other every few months or so when possible. Lets call the other friends A, B and C.

Friend A has been trying to conceive for a while and is now being assessed for fertility treatment. She has found the whole thing very tough and is desperate to be a mum. We all know this.

I have a DD and Friend B has 2 DCs (1.5 and 4). Friend C has recently announced she is pregnant, having told friend A separately before she told the rest of us. This was 8 weeks ago.

The problem is friend A has been extremely unkind to friend C. She was furious that C hadn't told her she was TTC, but when she explained that it was an unplanned pregnancy this seemed to make things worse. C said A had told her unplanned pregnancies were "irresponsible", for example. She doesn't seem to be able to be happy for C, nor does she want B or I to be happy for her.

She has asked friend B and I not to invite friend C to a get together we were arranging as "it's just too hard to see her". B and I said that we weren't happy to exlude C from our plans, but would understand if A didn't want to come at the moment. Both B and I have said we are happy to meet up with A individually, or to talk on the phone etc but are just not happy to leave C out of our usual plans.

Friend A has told us that she expected more support and feels "betrayed" by us all. Her husband spoke to me to say she has been inconsolable and he was surprised we hadn't been understanding. I've tried just listening, or trying to give her space and waiting for her to contact me but then was accused of sidelining her.

At the same time, C is also really upset by the situation.

I get that A is feeling really awful right now- it must feel like everyone else has what she desperately wants and without any difficulties. It is unfair and I do feel for her, but I also feel she is being unkind- this is a time that C should be able to be happy about without being made to feel guilty. I also feel that I should be able to be happy for my friend without being made to feel like I'm doing something to deliberately upset A. I don't want to leave C out of things, although understand why A might want to be absent herself from things for a while and would be happy to arrange things with A separately (i.e. not excluding C from things).

I don't really know what to say to friend A- I'd like to be supportive but also don't want to be guilted into being unfair to friend C. I feel she is being unreasonable (but understand why) and don't know how to tackle it without making things worse. wwyd?

[patienceisvirtuous]

Ah Suck you again, Patron Saint of infertiles (not)!

Friend A is being unreasonable but I agree with Maryz. Cut her some slack and try to support her while absolutely not condoning any negative treatment towards C.

[Rhine]

Having fertility problems doesn't give you an excuse to be really nasty and unpleasant to someone who's supposed to be a friend. I think Friend A is being really fucking spiteful.

The husband needs to wind his neck in as well. Contacting you to say he is "suprised" your not supporting his wife, why would you support someone who is acting like a dick?

[CatnipMouse]

Right, I can relate to A here. You just can't expect A to be happy for C, it sounds like it's just too tough for her. A will be less upset about it with time.

I don't think A is a total cunt. That's bloody harsh. I think A is scared shitless that this might never happen for her and is struggling to deal with this. She's not behaving with perfect manners because she is so scared and perhaps she thinks that she doesn't need to hide her feelings with friends. She's probably also worried about fertility treatment - send her over to the infertility board for some reassurance perhaps?!

I think A needs some good friends now and in the future, who can put up with a bit of irrationality sometimes. You can be friends with both A and C, but if A is asking you to choose, she is being daft and you should tell her so. A is going too far by being upset that you and B are happy for C, although it is totally understandable (for me, anyway) that she is probably jealous as all hell.

Also, something that struck me when you described your meet up plans is that A might be feeling paranoid about being left out in the future. If she is the only one without kids and the chat is all about pregnancy, babies or Mum stuff, she might be worried about not being asked along any more or just generally having nothing to contribute (and sitting through endless discussions of Mum Stuff, particularly pregnancy, when you want to be a Mum but can't - that's bloody painful)

Vatersay above said "You plaster a smile on your face and show up at hospitals, Christenings, first birthday parties etc with presents in hand and say all the right things. Then you cry at home in private." I think that's fine - if you can. But really, why should you have to? If it hurts less to avoid all these occasions, why not say so, and protect yourself by NOT GOING? Would you actually want your infertile friend to come to your kid's party and pretend to be fine if you knew it would make them sad afterwards? Because infertility can be a bloody long haul and I think that you need to protect yourself sometimes and just skip things that if you know it'll eat you up for weeks afterwards. And I have done that and I have said why I won't be there and the sky has not fallen in, and no-one has called me a selfish bitch (not to my face anyway). Mind you I'd be pissed off if someone just assumed that I wouldn't want to come and didn't invite me in the first place!

So I think A might need a bit of reassurance that you still want to be mates, and that you are available to listen to the odd rant, and that it's OK for her to feel upset about infertility (although not OK to try and make you choose between her and C). I have been so lucky with some of my friends while I have been going through infertility, IVF, miscarriage, you name it, it's been dismal. But without my mates I would have found it even tougher, they have really been supportive just by listening and telling me it's OK to cry and be angry about unfairness. (And they've all got kids by now, and I haven't, and we're still friends!)

[SuckMySquallop]

Having fertility problems doesn't give you an excuse to be really nasty and unpleasant to someone who's supposed to be a friend

THIS.

[AuntyMag10]

No one expects A to be jumping for joy for C, just not to make spiteful, bitchy comments. Does she think people are going to want to support her when she's behaving so awfully?
And her dh needs to butt out telling people what is expected of them.

[Amummyatlast]

Here, here Catnipmouse.

I shudder when I think of how irrational I was when I was A. I was not nasty about any pregnant women outside of my own home but I did completely cut them off and refuse to attend events where I might be in the company of pregnant women or babies. So I feel a lot of sympathy for A.

[diddl]

You can't expect A to be happy for C, but for A to expect to be told that someone is ttc is beyond ridiculous.

Likewise why would C say that it's unplanned?

That's just cruel.

I'm not surprised that she feels like shit.

I agree that you can't not see C, but it's easy to see why A doesn't want to atm!

[UrethraFranklin1]

Nobody has said they expect A to be happy for C. But theres a long way from not being happy for her to asking your other friends to ostracise her and being actively unkind.

You don't get to take your problems out on others because you're having a hard time. A doesn't just want sympathy and to avoid C (both of which are fine expectations), she wants to her other friends to not see C either and join her in bitching about her.

Surely you can see the difference, no matter how much you empathise with A?

[bigbumtheory]

Be supportive to C, but don't do what she wants in regards to ignoring A. See C on her own for the time being.

I've had a miscarriage and am finding it terrible hard to conceive again. I have a horrible feeling my best friend may be pregnant (very early) and I know much as I want to support her I won't be able to like I could without losing my baby. What friend A has done is so very unreasonable, but I can empathise with that feeling of anger, frustration and self-loathing for being jealous of friends.

Just talk to her. If she's not normally a nasty person then she may be beating herself up a lot for being a bad friend as well and really not thinking reasonably at all that's what grief does and she's grieving the loss of being able to have children. She's not reasonable at all but she's hurting too.

I know I feel such self loathing for not being strong enough to see my friends with new lo's or pregnancies. It hurts so much I just can't take myself back to that anxious, heartbreaking hurt place. She may be doing the same.

Support friend A completely though, just support them separately.

[bigbumtheory]

Be supportive to C, but don't do what she wants in regards to ignoring A. See C on her own for the time being.

Wrong way around!

[bigbumtheory]

Support friend A completely though, just support them separately.

Support C completely wit h other friends too but not with A.

[OwlinaTree]

Poor A and C and you. C really could have left out the unplanned bit out but hey ho.

A is reacting and lashing out at C, C is enbodying all her hatred at the moment. She can't cope with seeing her at this event, hence trying to get C uninvited.

If the friendship with A is generally good, I think you need to continue as you are. It's either whole group meet ups as you always have done, or one to one. You can sympathise with how shit and angry A is feeling, but still remind her that she is a friend and her having a baby will make no difference to the chance of A having a baby. Get B on message with that too.

If you are all mates, hopefully giving A some space and not letting her burn her bridges will help. It is the hardest thing I've ever had to do, be happy for people when it's all you want. Sometimes this makes you irrational.

Good luck, you sound like a good friend.

[AuntyMag10]

Diddl did you not read the op properly? C only told her it was unplanned when she had to EXPLAIN to A why she didn't tell her she was ttc. A has no right to be demanded to be told who and when people are ttc.

[Gooseberrycrumble2]

I've been where A is too and it was deeply painful. Like being constantly in grief. It was painful when friends told me of their pregnancies (it highlighted how crap my body was) BUT I'd also be very pleased that they didn't have fertility issues.

[SWFARMER]

As problem definitely. Explain you understand she's hurting but it isn't anyones fault and you're all there to support her through her difficult time.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

She doesn't seem to be able to be happy for friend C.
With the greatest respect. C is having the one thing that A wants more than anything else in the world. There are no laws that say you have to be over the moon for pregnant women. Having being ttc for 2 years. Pregnancy announcements can get you down and make you behave irrationally. Even to the point where you can feel pregnant women are laughing at you. Saying ha ha. I'm pregnant and you're not. I am in no way condoning what she is doing. But infertility brings out all sorts of demons.

[diddl]

"when she had to EXPLAIN to A why she didn't tell her she was ttc."

Of course she didn't have to explain.

[jacks11]

Maybe I was naive to expect her to be happy for C.

However, I don't think it's ok for her to be actively unpleasant and seek to exclude her. I don't think A can expect everybody else not to be happy for C either.

Diddl- C only told A it was an unplanned pregnancy after she got really angry and upset when she thought C had not told her she was trying TTC. I don't know why she thought C should have let her know if she had been TTC- maybe she felt it would have been less of a shock. I think it is unreasonable for friends to have to share the plans to start a family, but I can see how being told it was unplanned could feel like a slap in the face for A. I think C was trying to soften the blow, as she was a taken aback by A's reaction. I do understand it was not the most tactful thing C could have said, but as I said I think it was said in the context of being very surprised by the vehemence of A's reaction.

I am trying to be a friend to A, to be there for her and be supportive but I admit I am increasingly struggling to not be annoyed with her because she has really hurt C, who has really done nothing wrong. If it was just a case of absenting herself from our get-togethers and not being in close contact with C, we would all absolutely understand- but it's not. She seems determined that none of us should be happy for C, and is seeking to exclude her, which isn't fair.

I know A is acting irrationally because she is hurting and that is why I have tried to ignore her behaviour so far. I hoped she would calm down, in the sense that she would be less actively unkind (I didn't expect her to want absolutely fine or to want to C see often or anything like that).

I am going to have a chat with her and emphasise that we all care for her and recognise how hard things are, but the attempts to exclude C and being actively mean is really unfair. I don't want to make things worse for her, but nor can I continue to condone/ignore her behaviour towards C at the moment.

Reading this back, I know I seem very hard on A. Maybe I am being. I want to cut her some slack, but some things i don't feel I can ignore or condone.

[diddl]

"She seems determined that none of us should be happy for C, and is seeking to exclude her, which isn't fair. "

No of course it isn't fair.

She's being totally irrational as no other woman's pregnancy has any bearing at all on her own fertility.

Sh might still had reacted badly had she been told that C was ttc, which of course is none of her business anyway.

It's just very sad for all involved.

[OhBigHairyBollocks]

I think you are handling the situation quite well OP really. I feel sorry for both of them, what a shite situation.

[bettyberry]

I had a friend A who, at the time, was very openly having fertility problems. Everyone knew. The worst thing I too was friend A, just coming out the end of 6 miscarriages, but ttc quietly because breaking the news of another loss would have been unbearable -they knew about the first just not the other five. When I finally finally! got pregnant she had a meltdown and the friendship was over :( No amount of explaining the mc's helped. she only saw I had what she didn't.


She is being selfish and unreasonable.She needs to get a grip (brutal yes, I am not sorry) and realise she cannot control nor dictate who or when anyone gets pregnant. It is not her fault nor is it any of your other friends fault and she cannot behave as though it is. Its cruel.

TTC is hard enough without alienating all of her friends and I can see she will do this if you and the other two ladies come to the end of your tether with her behaviour.

She wont snap out of it (the behaviour), not without help, but I feel all of you, every one of you need to sit her down and let her know that you will be there for her. You will support her but under no circumstances will you put anyone's friendship in jeopardy and if she feels she cannot handle it right now, thats ok. Let her know if she cannot join group gatherings you can keep in touch via e-mail, phone calls etc.

I know from bitter experience pregnancy isn't straight forward, can end at any moment. Just the same any of you could find out you are pregnant too in the coming months, planned or not and the last thing any of you need is someone yelling at you for being inconsiderate.

[happystory]

When we were TTC I was devastated one day to find out that a close friend was having her second baby. Second! I couldn't even manage one! It was so painful and seemed so unfair. Dh gave me a stern talking to and said something along the lines of 'the world can't stop having babies because you can't.' At the time I found that heartless and cried even more, but with time, I accepted he was right. Friend A is understandably upset but there really isn't need to be so unpleasant esp as your group friendship is obviously a long standing one.

[chaiselounger]

You are dealing with this well OP.

[bigbumtheory]

Oh OP, this is a very difficult time for you and I completely understand your anger with A but if you want to try and keep the friendship between you and A then I do urge you to tread carefully. She will be hurting deeply and lashing out. It is not fair or reasonable but if things were fair then A would have the baby she wants, wouldn’t she? I would step back from your anger and save telling A how disappointed and angry in her you are and avoid certain trigger things. In A’s mind, C represents all she can’t do and can’t have. C’s pregnancy being unplanned just hits home how much A has failed, how much her body has failed to do the one thing they want it to, probably the one things she expects it to. She probably feels very deeply how unfair life is; she and her DH have gone and are going through stress and strain and it’s probably been shit on them and their relationship. They’ve tried and tried and done everything right. C has done nothing right (in terms of ovulation checking, actively trying, taking pre-natals, being on no alcohol, low caffeine etc, all the things you do when it’s hard to conceive) and yet she’s managed the one thing A can’t do. She probably feels resentful of C, it’s unfair and C doesn’t deserve it but it’s normal emotion and she’s in her right to feel it.

There’s nothing wrong with those emotions, they come with grieving, no matter what the grief is about. What’s wrong is not being able to step away and just say ‘I’m sorry I wish I could be supportive as a friend but I just can’t, it hurts to much.’ Which is what she should have done. She doesn’t have to fake anything or try to be happy for C, her own emotion and grief is of her utmost importance and she has to be true to that. But she is behaving very badly, lashing out in her grief and her DH isn’t helping. They are acting as a team against C as it were but that is very unfair, they should be acting as a team in saying they can’t support C and distancing themselves but being civil about it.

I was in tears with a friend who was pregnant, I told her I just couldn’t be a part of baby showers and I was sorry. I feel so terribly guilty over that, despite not being unreasonable or unfair. When A gets passed the anger-grief, she will likely feel deep shame, mortification and disappointment in herself.

For C, be there, tell her A is unreasonable and you won’t be cutting C off at all. Tell C she knows this wasn’t done to upset A, it’s not Cs fault and she needs to focus on herself and the baby. But explain to C why A feels this anger, show her the thread if you have to which shows the comments from people having been in A’s position or similar (not to excuse her but for understanding). I very much hope C doesn’t feel guilty or to blame but I have also been in C’s position when I was pregnant the first time and I know that she will likely do. She’s best ignoring A’s calls/texts and distancing herself. Just texting to say ‘I love you, I didn’t do this to hurt you and I’m sorry that it has. You are hurting me now and it’s best we step back from each other until you can understand that and want to properly talk.’If anything.

I would be careful what you say to A, please avoid ‘life is unfair’, that’s no help to anyone in any grief situation. Don’t try to compare or say you understand her feelings. Don’t demand apologies to C because that’s going to get her back up and it will end in mass fallouts. Honestly, I would email her first and give her time to digest it then wait for her to call you or call her and say ‘You know I love you, you are one of my closest friends. C is as well and you both need my support at the moment so I plan to be there for you both.’

Email her something like this.

I know you are hurting badly because of C’s pregnancy, I can’t imagine how it feels and I can understand it must be heart-breaking, making you very angry and resentful. I know you are grieving that you can’t have children and that you must be going through so much pain and upset. I want to support you through this, you are one of my closest friends and I’m worried about you.

C is also my close friend and I want to support her too. I know it probably feels right now like she did this to spite you but you need to understand that she didn’t. She’s one of your close friends too and she’s worried and upset too. I won’t cut off C or treat her as anything less than my friend. I know that’s not what you want to hear right now, but much as I understand your anger towards C I can’t agree with it.

No one expects you to see C anymore if you don’t want to, or to apologise. I’m not pushing you to have any kind of communication with her though I hope that in time you will do so. I hope you can understand this, but if you wish to isolate yourself for a while then that’s what you need to do. If you want me to support you then that’s what I’ll do but not at the expense of another friend. I love you both and will be supporting you both, if you want me too.’

[Monkeysee100]

It's such a hard position to be in and I've been in similar positions with family members popping out kids they dump with relatives while we went though hellish genetic testing and also had a friend break contact with me while I was pregnant and she'd had a miscarriage.

She isnt thinking rationally. Just continue to support them both. She will come out the other side somehow.