DH leaving DS alone in bath

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Last year DH kept repeadly leaving 4 year old DS in bath on his own. DH would go and sit in study (on same floor as bathroom but out of sight) and sit in front of his computer claiming that he's listening out for DS. I explained that drowning is silent and caught DS on several occasions on his front, creating huge waves and mucking about. He has very little concept of safety despite it being explained. DH doesn't even notice when we are in same room talking to him when he is on his PC, but keeps saying he can hear if DS gets into trouble in bath! We eventually agreed last year that we would not leave him in bath on his own. Then this year DH left him on his own again in bath (hoping I wouldn't notice).

DS has no problem with turning on hot tap or shower when I'm not looking despite me explaining that he should it be playing with taps

I meant 'should not be playing with taps'

I think yanbu but only because your dh is in the study on the computer and if he's anything like mine he will zone out from what's going on.

I think a 4 yo can be left in the bath alone but still needs to be supervised by adult being aware, calling out regularly and popping in and out. I have showered mine from a young age as I believe it's safer if the supervising adult gets distracted! Is that an option?

Mrsplum, yes we normally shower them. Both of us are easily distracted so I know that we should not be on computer in another room due to zoning out. My point to him was if you can't keep an eye on him during bath time them shower as per usual.

I think a 4yo should be fine in the bath with someone on the same floor.

It's a parenting disagreement. Either you accept the way your DH does it or you supervise all baths.

I think 4yo is the age that you don't need to watch them in the bath as much. Yes, keep an eye on them, but no need to watch every moment.

As someone pointed out silent drowning is 1-2% of drowning.

Googling quickly I find:
In the UK around 13 children (under 5 years) die from drowning each year, and 1 in 4 of these deaths occur in a bath, so that's about 3 deaths a year.
However looking further the evidence seems to be that the vast majority of bath deaths are children in the bath seats that the parents assume they're safe because they're sitting up but the bath seat tips over.

However back to silent drowning. If, lets say it's 2% of deaths are silent drowning, and 3 children every year drown in a bath.
That means that over around 33 years 100 children drown in a bath.
So silent drowning occurs roughly once every 16.5 years with a child in a bath.

If the statistics were that good for road deaths -on average over 20 under 5s die from road accidents every year.

Firstly apologies Dunkling and Brunette my last post missed a word it should have read it's not just about swallowing water.
However brunette was talking about secondary drowning which occurs hours after being in the water and is caused by water getting into the lungs.
What you describe which is horrible sounds like dry drowning where no water enters the lungs, instead it enters the airway causing a spasm making breathing difficult.
Both secondary and dry drowning have coughing as a symptom. If DS started coughing in the bath I'd be in there sharpish.

my thing's definitely roads - i have terrible trouble letting DD scoot ahead although she's pretty reliable about stopping these days. unfortunately parenting is all about teaching children to manage risk and not to do silly things that can result in high costs and you have to trust them at some point to test if they have understood the lesson. They don't get to 18 and suddenly you let them do whatever, they have to be taught. But being taught to understand risks isn't the same as oblivious parenting.

"Leaving your kids alone in the bath is a very bad idea."

What - a four year old in one foot of water?

I don't get it.

It's like not allowing them to walk down the stairs on their own in case they trip and break their necks. Or still cut their food up into tiny, tiny pieces in case they choke. Or double locking all the doors and windows when you're indoors just in case they decide to escape.

Of course children can drown in water where they are even a little bit out of their depth, or in water where they are in depth but where there are strong currents, but in a bathtub? It would be a complete freak accident, and I couldn't live my life trying to avoid freak accidents.

I think there is a world of difference between leaving a child in a bath whilst you potter in other rooms putting washing away etc and regularly nip in bathroom to check or talk to them and leaving a child in a bath whilst you plonk yourself in front of a computer and piste oaky zone out. OP give what you said about your DHs concentration when on computer (ie blocks you in same room chatting to him) and your DS not taking safety seriously YADNBU. Other families circumstances might make it okay but it a doesn't seem that yours does.

Can I ask more about this secondary drowning. I'd never heard of before. I take my toddler son to swimming lessons he sometimes gets a mouthful of water due to activities we are doing and/or jumping in or going under per instructions. Usually comes up fine. Will sometimes cough or splutter. What should I be watching for?! This could turn out to be my "thing"!

Thank you Feckadeck.

My mum had a friend with a 2 and 4 year old. She used to bath them together. One evening she took the 2 year old out to get dried and dressed when she went back to the bathroom the 4 year old had drowned. I was only young at the time but I've never forgotten it and prob made me over cautious but I think from age 4 I would prob potter about upstairs but never leave them unattended in the bath for more than a couple of minutes and prob be talking to them when I was out of the room

It does not even have to be a foot of water.

The child just needs to unexpectedly find their face in the water and breathing it in to go into a panic mode and fail to right themselves.

It can be any amount of water.

They just go still.

I don't understand - I regularly leave DS (nearly 4) in a bath by himself. Last night I left him, went downstairs to make dinner and by the time I got back upstairs he'd gotten out, wrapped himself in a towel and was choosing his stories.

But then DS1 has been swimming independently for a long time and is in the pool so often he's part fish so the danger of him drowning in his foot of bathwater doesn't cross my mind.

And most of the time if I am upstairs with him whilst he's bathing, I'm watching a tv show or reading emails.

But I do think some parents have a "thing" - I would imagine mine is road safety as its so hot here we don't really walk many places and DS1 has no concept of road awareness as there aren't many sidewalks.

YANBU. I know I would zone out if on the computer and it sounds like he is the same.

I do leave my 3 year old in the bath and will potter about putting stuff away in my room and the boys' room etc, but I am always in aural contact. DS3 chats away to himself, when he stops I shout and swoop in to make sure he is ok.

BTW I'm always popping in and out, every 3-4 minutes probably.

Parents should really really not leave their children alone in the bath. OP, you are absolutely right.

There was a case only the other day of a two year old who died in the bath when his mum had only left him for a couple of minutes:

www.onemk.co.uk/news/2015/8/mothers-worst-nightmare-as-baby-drowns-in-bath-in-bletchley-milton-keynes-040820150032.html

Swimming doesn't have anything to do with it. Both of mine are confident swimmers and have been swimming lengths since 3 years. I still wouldn't leave them alone in the bath

What, ever hackmum?

My DS, when he was 4, fell over in very shallow water. I watched from a short distance, expecting him to get up, and to my horror, saw he stuck his head UNDER the water, and not above it. I was horrified that his reaction was to submerge rather than, as you might imagine, seek the air above water.

It was freaky to watch, but it made me really understand how young children can drown so easily. Their reactions just aren't wired right at that age!

Minifingers - you said "What - a four year old in one foot of water?" and I would say to you google how much water it takes to drown a child. Everyone agrees it's just a few inches.

Secondary drowning is a bit of a thing on MN at the moment. Is it something people gave just found out about or something?

Has anyone got the figures for how many children aged 4+ actually drown in the bath?

Carrie - surely you can take 10 mins out the day to yes just make sure they are never left alone in bath at 4.

I don't know the statistics I just know I wouldn't want mine becoming one of them. Also bare in mind those children who were under water long enough to cause brain damage won't be those statistics of thoSe who drown

I could never let them out of my sight at all but I don't consider it necessary or healthy Art.

I don't leave my 5 year old alone but do leave my 8 year old.

When my 3rd was about 3.5? I was sitting in the bathroom next to the bath, she was playing with her two older siblings. I had my attention off the bath reading a magazine on the floor and looked up to see mym3.5 year old face down in the water with my other two still playing next to her oblivious. Luckily she would have only been in for a few seconds (still don't know what happened) but if I hadn't been right there then it could have been worse. My older children were clearly no prevention against this!

DeeWe - thanks for that, re relative risks. I was just thinking someone should write an article putting perceived danger into perspective. Yes - people do seem to have 'a thing', but it's usually based on some freak accident which, by its rarity, has stuck in their minds, like cars catching fire on the garage forecourt. It's not rational.

I'd also like to know at what age people do think their dcs are safe in the bath. Imo, 2 - no, 3 - getting there, the ave 4 yr old, yes. The main risk is standing up and slipping - as with the elderly - and that's v unlikely with a bath mat. Teach dcs about hot taps. They're not going to play with something that hurts.