To think it's crazy to work for a loss of money

[AsongforEurope]

I know it will only be for a year or so and I need to think about career prospects for the future but I'm soon to end mat leave, I have 3 dc's under 3 and I have worked it out, I will be returning to work and I will be quite considerably out of pocket. It's crazy. I can't afford to be paying to go to work but I don't want to loss my independence. My return to work will also mean my DP will have to do drop offs and pick ups as my part time contract means I work long hours the days I work. He will have to drive to two nurseries (the first, cheaper nursery doesn't take children until they are two). These nurseries are 10 miles apart (rural location) so he won't get to work until late and has to leave early and will have to make the hours up on a Saturday. Just can't see it working despite the fact I want it to. Any advice?

In a similar position here, though we are 95% certain I will not be returning to work. I did return after my first with a year of pt and then 8mths of full time. I returned for my sanity. Contributing the same amount to the household as I did previously, paying my commute costs (which had doubled as we moved out of London and my office moved locations requiring a tube journey), and splitting childcare costs, we were 50-100 worse off a month. We sucked it up because my mat package is good and we knew we wanted a second.

My social life was worse from working. I couldn't socialise after work as I had the nursery run and never went out for lunch as I couldn't risk leaving late. I was doing 12 hour days and the weekend was for my son and all the jobs that needed to be done. So I would disagree on pp on that point.

Logistically and financially it is not worth me returning. I also have a job and not a career. I dislike the company, their processes and all my friends have since moved on so there isn't anything I'm returning for. After supporting my oh for 10yrs, paying for weddings, house etc. And getting our debts in order I'm looking forward to taking time out and retraining in something else.

Ah ok, I see - sorry in initially thought that you would just have less household takehome but still breaking even. I guess that does make it harder. I think the pragmatic questions about likely longterm prospects - in the event of your taking time off and in the event of your not - will have to swing it.

I would think positively and think I'd have four years at home with the children and try to earn some extra money from home in that time. Then I'd do whatever I could to get back into the workplace. It's crazy to work for a loss - it's one thing if you're very wealthy and it's a job you do for fun, but if you're going to be skint as a result of working, that's not on.

You went to Uni, right?

So you had 3 years of 'working for nothing' but you still did it.

Why? Because it made long term financial sense.

Childcare really isn't any different.

We had the same situation - my father very kindly offered to make up the difference between my salary and the cost of childcare.

It's really worked out well because now DS1 is starting school, I've got enough experience in my role to be allowed to WFH twice a week. I could probably wrangle school-only hours too, due to the fact that I've been here a while. If I were looking for a job now, it would be much much harder to find anything suited to me/my background and I think I'd feel properly stuck.

Plus, now DS1 is starting school our costs will plummet and we will feel SO RICH!

I hope that you find a workable solution.

Which of you or your partner earns the most and if him why is that the case? (I earned 10x my children's father's earnings).

Have you got space for a live in nanny? They will be slightly cheaper than live out, and suited more to somewhere rural. If you have 3 bedrooms I would just put all children in one bedroom for at least 2 years so you have space for someone living in. Means no rushing in the morning getting them up and ready either and they can do school runs and pick ups for eldest once they start school later on as well as care for younger ones still.

If you only need someone 3 long days I'm sure many would be interested especially if they want time to study also on spare days

I chose to work full-time for what amounted to a loss as I'd have had a higher take-home 'pay' had I accessed the various benefits, credits, allowances, funding etc.

I did it for my own sanity, mostly. We are getting towards the end now and I'm glad I did it. I've accessed training and experience through work that I wouldn't have afforded or achieved myself, and I think I'd struggle to get back into this line of work for the same pay had I left my current company. Also my company is totally flexible and family-friendly so have supported me all the way. If I had to - for example - be sat at a reception desk from 9am to 5pm I couldn't have done it.

I won't lie it has been really really tough - 3 different childcare settings for 2 children. One is disabled and has a LOT of appointments, there is a lot of time off sick, we have no family around. I work evenings and weekends at home to make my hours up, like your DH would have to. We have had to be super-organised and work together as a team. There have been times we have sat down and questioned what we are doing and why we are doing it.

But I'm so glad we did it this way, even if I'm slightly greyer as a result.

you need to look at the long game - yes, as a couple you take a hit now, but by remaining in the workplace you continue to progress in your career.

That's a big deal - it'll pay off later on and the best protection a woman can have is her own income. I know that sounds cynical, but I'm seeing friends divorce in their mid/late 30s (and alas a couple of unexpected deaths) and the sahm partners have borne the brunt of it.

Here are some things you could do:

Look at a nanny/nanny share
See if you can change your hours (and your dh can change too) so that you can cover pick ups and drop offs
See if you can work condensed hours (40 over four days for example)
See if you can cut down to four days a week.

I know other posters have raised this too but I hate it when the argument that 'it takes all my salary' is used as if it's the woman's responsibility to pay for childcare! It's not - it's an expense that should be shared!

Where I live, childcare is subsidised and about £120/month/child. The result is much higher female participation in the workplace, virtually no sahms and much less gender discrimination (parental leave is encouraged to be shared between partners) also a much broader tax base because more people work. It's a no brainer.

I do think it's unfair to say the OP needs to look at the long term, it's all good and well if you are in a family that can make a loss and still manage fine, but while many families can cope on one wage, going below that one wage can cause problems.

I would look at other solutions like other childcare options (a nanny 2 days, DH working on Saturdays and having one day off in the week, your nanny doing 2 long days should be cheaper than paying for 3 days at nursery for 3; or nurseries/childminders closer to DHs work, losing that commute time hit; or looking for other jobs with more flexible hours) before giving up the idea of work altogether.

But ultimately, if it's going to not even make a profit but also cost your family money for you to work, you do need to weigh up if that's going ot be worth it to make a profit in a few years time, if you'd be likely to get back into work in those few years etc.

Skipton - the OP has already said their finances are shared, if the money she brings in is less than goes out in childcare and commuting costs, and her DH earns more than hers, then calling it a shared cost doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the fact that whatever she does, they are going to be living off her DH's wage (and in her case, her working will mean they are living off less than just her DH's wage as their joint childcare costs will be the same as all of her wage plus a bit of his!).

Which I asked why her husband earns more.

Totally agree with posters who are saying you need to look at the long term. The childcare years are short, but life is long (and expensive). You are building a pension as well as a future career and further down the line it will pay off with interest.

But do rethink childcare, including a mix of options ie a nanny to do pickups in the afternoons and/or childminder + nursery etc.

Could you negotiate down to 2 days for the next year until your older dc goes to nursery and you get some funding. Could you they and get WFH at least one day a week to save you the commute?

Unfortunately if you can't cover all your childcare costs and bills then I don't see how work is possible tbh. We just broke even and plus I only work 2 days and didn't have a long commute.

Could you look for something more local?

Nanny would be way cheaper. Good luck!

I stayed at work even though childcare costs ate all my salary. Like others I did it to keep my job, keep my career, pay into my pension and to reduce the chances of us both being out of work. It was extremely hard at the time but 20 years on I am very glad I did it.

If you can possibly make it happen OP I would recommend it, but it is tough, especially with no family nearby.

we are the same! I went back to work and was losing so much money, paying someone else to raise our children, it made no sense.
it is so upsetting as i did enjoy my job and I get so bored but why work and be out of pocket, yes it may affect my career but I can worry about then when they start preschool and I go back into a job.
we don't claim anything and we dont struggle but live comfortably now, i really budget and hunt for the best deals. and I am on the hunt for a job to do for a couple of hours on a Saturday morning in a supermarket. hubby can have some quality time with the kiddies, i get out the house a bit, and a discount on food shopping so helps with bills.

my friend loses £380 a month paying to be in work, i just CANT justify going to work, losing all my wages and more for someone else to raise my children.

This is why I ended up working nights, Its good money, not great, but I'll do that until my dd is at school then I can get back into the real world.
Unfortunately we can't have it all. That's not meant to be judgmental, its just a fact. I have many friends who have ended up having to just work from home, or cut back their days, big companies are really good at this, and ts the law even though some companies understandably don't apply it, or tell you about it, but they have an obligation to work out a flexible work pattern,
Why don't you talk to your company about working part time until you get back into the swing of things, start with your HR department.
Good luck! x

I would just give up work, I know it isn't for everyone but children are young once.

I would rather be there for my children then making a loss of time with my children and a loss of family income.

I reasoned that as I had been prepared to get into debt to get a degree so a child was equally worth it. It's only for two or three tears and then they will be at school. Good luck.

My return to work will also mean my DP will have to do drop offs and pick ups as my part time contract means I work long hours the days I work. He will have to drive to two nurseries (the first, cheaper nursery doesn't take children until they are two). These nurseries are 10 miles apart (rural location) so he won't get to work until late and has to leave early and will have to make the hours up on a Saturday.

Erm, who the hell did you expect to do drop offs and pick ups when you decided to have children? The phrase "boohoo" springs to mind!

Have you worked out how long you could take a financial hit for? That might help in a list of for and against.
Check all benefits
Get on MSE website
Think about any employers pension contribution as part of your salary (you just can't get it till you retire)
Are there any pending changes that might have a financial implication?
Childminding, mothers help, nanny, shared nanny, childcare swap with local mums? All possible alternatives.
What's the long term risk of NOT going back?
Speak to mortgage advisor (if that's an option)
Subsidise with savings?
Are you maximising all salary sacrifices? Especially child care vouchers?
Finally (and drastically) is relocating an option?
Good luck. It's a horrible choice and not one I envy. I hope it works out for you.

Just had a thought, I know you are rural but do you have any colleges running nanny courses anywhere near? Someone I knew years ago voluntarily took a student on a nanny placement while she was on Mat leave with her youngest and it went so well she employed her once she qualified.

Chill out surlycue I'm not asking for sympathy, purely giving the whole story as to the logistics of the situation. I think I actually made that point in relation to someone asking about us sharing the drop offs and pick ups and me stating this want possible.

In your position I'd still go back to work because I'd go stir crazy without a job. I'd consider the cost to be an investment in my mental health as much as anything. Long term you'll also be better off financially by not taking a career break. Of course being a SAHm may appeal to you in which case none of the above applies. Definitely look into a nanny though, you might save money and you'd definitely save on stress and exhaustion.

Thanks to all the really very supportive and proactive responses I've had on this thread. I'm off to look into how some of these such as employing a nanny could work for us.