Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a quick headcount on getting back into the car is not too difficult to remember?

166 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/08/2015 18:19

BBC news story here. A family left their 3yo at a motorway service station and didn't notice that she wasn't in the car for 2 hours. How? Poor little kid. Hope she's all right now. Sad

OP posts:
CheersMedea · 11/08/2015 12:50

And what a tragedy for the baby and the family. I would imagine someone would be a serious suicide risk after something like that.

CrispyFern · 11/08/2015 13:12

There was a Pulitzer Prize winning article about babies dying in hot cars.

People do something as routine every day, and then one day when something is slightly different, they don't carry out the same actions, they don't realise, and it can have dire consequences. I don't think anybody should judge.

It was called Fatal Distraction, the article.

DeeWe · 11/08/2015 13:18

Dh's dp once forgot all three of them (one at least a very loud teenager) until they got a phone call asking what they wanted done with them. They'd just thought how nice and unusually quiet the boys were at home. They had come back separately and assumed each other had them though.

At 3yo dd1 still used to sleep constantly in a car. She'd always fall asleep within 10 minutes of setting off and sleep most of the way.

Someone asked about toilet stops-at 3yo it's certainly more than possible they were put back in a nappy for long journeys. I've knows a few people who do that up the age of about 8yo exactly for that reason.

We've got a zafira and with ds in his forward facing (high backed) booster seat, if he falls asleep against the outside side, I have to deliberately raise myself to see him in the mirror. He's 8yo and nearly out of the seat, so I can imagine that a 3yo wouldn't be easily visible.

I don't think I would do it, but I can imagine it happening when tired and fractious, and parents just feeling thankful they were quiet in the back. Or possible telling them they have to be quiet because they're arguing too much:
"Mumm... but listen dsis...."
"Be quiet! I don't want to hear what you're sister's doing!"
Anyone said that before?

marinacortina · 11/08/2015 13:34

Yes, I think it's very easy to see how this could happen.

MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 11/08/2015 13:44

From that French link, it sounds as though the little girl was in the back row of an MPV (it says she was seated in the "boot" but I imagine that's what's meant) and it sounds as though her siblings were in the middle row. It does say the mother and father each thought the other one had strapped them in, and they only realized when the dad asked if everyone was OK in the back, at which point it says he stopped and called the emergency services. It also says she is quite quiet. So actually I could see how that could happen, in the confusion of getting everyone back in - not often, but as a rare occurrence like this one.

lavenderhoney · 11/08/2015 14:30

I was driving that road last weekend. It was hellish busy going south- I'm just a bit stunned they drove for over two hours past aix en Provence without stopping again. That's well over two hours from the aire they stopped at, and with the traffic on a hot day, so lots of water drinking and aires every couple of miles, it seems incredible to me no one needed a coffee or the loo. Or just get out and stretch your legs.

marinacortina · 11/08/2015 14:38

Perhaps the children were asleep. I'd be inclined to keep going as long as possible if they were quiet.

Procrastinatingpeacock · 11/08/2015 14:39

crispyfern I read that article last year and it has always stayed with me. Extremely well-written exploration of some absolutely heart breaking stories. I would really recommend it to others as a powerful and incredibly moving read, it is very hard-hitting though.

wannaBe · 11/08/2015 14:54

well, of course the parents weren't going to admit that perhaps they had had enough and driven away as a threat and just kept driving, and that they had a flush of conscience when they realised that she had been found and that perhaps there was a risk of them being tracked down. Or that nobody paid any attention to the children for three hours. I don't imagine they figured it would make the media not only in France but the UK as well....

I'd imagine that their parenting is now under serious scrutiny by the French equivolant of social services, and tbh abandoning a three year old for over three hours should mean that they do have some serious questions to answer. Of course they're going to go into damage limitation mode at this stage. But this is IMO unforgivable

This is not remotely comparable to the tragic stories where someone has left a baby in a car because he left the car so wouldn't have the potential reminder that the baby was there, iyswim. The fact this child wasn't in the car was there as a constant reminder. It was right in front of them, or behind them, for three hours. And nobody, not once, thought to check that the children were ok. And if right at the back was out of sight why would you put a child there that you couldn't see, wouldn't know if e.g. they had been sick (something which isn't uncommon in a car with very young children).

Children are abused and neglected every day, and yet when neglect as blatant as this happens people are quick to jump to the defence of the parents. Why?

bloodyteenagers · 11/08/2015 15:15

Even if the child was quiet, you still do a "hey, you okay back there?"
"Anyone want a drink/food/toilet?"
Look at the child. Make sure they haven't had a nose bleed. Sick. Breathing.

You don't sit there in stony silence staring straight ahead when you have other people in the car. Even more so when they are young children.

Whether they heard on the radio or not doesn't matter. The neglectful, irresponsible adults in that car.
One car not a fleet. Left and forgot about a 3 year old for 2 hours.

There is no excuse. Not even they both thought the other had strapped the child in.. Because over a two hour period you talk, you check your children.

FATEdestiny · 11/08/2015 15:51

Gosh crispyfern, thank you so much for mentioning that article. I think this:

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

qualifies as the very best journalist article I have ever read. No wonder it won awards.

I have cried, composed myself and read on six, seven, eight times. I lost count. Very informative and moving.

The article has completely changed the way I think about the family in this French case the OP is about.

Hygge · 11/08/2015 16:15

I've read that article before FATEdestiny and it is very moving.

However whenever I hear about another instance of a child being left in a car this article is the one I always think of.

And I can't see how it could be anything other than neglect.

The parents returned home at 11:30pm after doing laundry at another relatives house.

They took their elder daughter, age 2, into the house with the laundry but both apparently assumed the other parent had brought in their 7 month old as well.

Neither of them did and the baby spent the night outside in the car.

At 12 noon the next day, the father woke up and got out of bed.

He left his partner in bed and went to the gym, without checking on either of his daughters.

So that's a seven month old and a two year old, not checked, not changed, not fed, for over twelve hours.

And he just gets up and lunchtime and goes to the gym.

With his daughter's body in the back of the car, and still he doesn't notice her.

Then his partner gets out of bed at 2pm, and finally notices her baby is missing, fourteen and a half hours after they got home.

So that's still two very young children not fed, changed, given anything to drink, or even looked at, for all that time, all those hours.

And when she finally does get out of bed and realises the seven month old is missing, she rings him at the gym and he finally goes to look in the car and finds that poor baby.

Over fourteen and a half hours too late.

I try to be sympathetic to people, I really do. And I do see how people can forget and tragedies like this happen. If it's a difference to their routine and they just don't think. I can even see how the French couple might have been distracted by a difficult journey and a car full of children and not realised their daughter was missing. The report I read says they realised after 90 minutes when they heard the appeal on the news, so would have had to travel the 90 minutes back as well.

I can't imagine doing this myself, not leaving my son in the car as a baby or leaving him by the side of the road now, but I can at least empathise and accept we don't know all the facts yet, just the bare bones which might not be fully correct.

But not in this case, not from the article I linked to. I can't understand or empathise with this or understand why they said there were no signs of neglect.

You just can't expect a seven month old or a two year old to be left for fourteen and a half hours without a nappy change, without needing a drink, without wanting to be fed, without just being awake and needing the attention of their parents because they are babies. Babies don't last that long without needing something.

I don't know what he was thinking when he got up at 12 noon and didn't go to even look at those children, or why she stayed in bed for two hours longer. He must have known at 12 noon that there would be wet nappies to deal with, and that the children would be hungry and thirsty, and yet he didn't even check on the children and notice one was gone.

Not unless it's a regular occurrence for the parents to sleep this late and leave them hungry and thirsty with dirty nappies, which to me is neglect even if the baby hadn't been left to die in the car.

The father in FATE's article seems to be completely different in his situation, and I feel very sorry for him. But this is the story that haunts me whenever an incident like this is reported.

Orrla · 11/08/2015 16:43

That article...Wow.

CheersMedea · 11/08/2015 16:48

crispyfern & FATEdestiny

thanks both for mentioning and linking that article. Indeed great journalism and very thought provoking on such a tragic subject.

wol1968 · 11/08/2015 17:06

I'm thinking someone should invent a safety feature that stops a car from locking up and/or sets the car alarm off whenever a child is fully strapped and clicked into their car seat. It should be possible with any ISOfix seat and might stop these incidents where babies die in hot cars.

CheersMedea · 11/08/2015 17:21

and/or sets the car alarm off whenever a child is fully strapped and clicked into their car seat

A lot of car alarms have internal motion sensors anyway.

In one of those stories in the article, the car alarm went off repeatedly, the man went back to check, couldn't see anyone near the car and so ended up turning the alarm off.

Beckadoo · 11/08/2015 18:13

I fell out of the car when my dad was driving down the road ...I was in the front seat, yes was the 70s but Dad didn't notice! Took my 2 older siblings to yell at him that I was bumping along the tarmac before he cottoned on...it happens..

Beckadoo · 11/08/2015 18:18

I was 3

marinacortina · 11/08/2015 18:37

I find the suggestions that these parents deliberately left their three-y-o daughter behind quite ridiculous.

Diagonally · 11/08/2015 19:08

There's far too little information in that news report to make any kind of judgement. One article in the French media says that the father did realise the girl was missing himself when they stopped at a motorway toll and turned round to check on the children.

It is quite possible that after lunch, on a long journey, especially if the children were all small, everyone except the driver was assumed to be asleep.

I've been on similar length journeys with DS at that age I used to time it so he would sleep all the way - he'd be off within minutes of being in the car and tbh unless I heard him stirring, I might not have turned round. I probably would have but I can't say for definite.

belgina · 11/08/2015 19:14

We left dd2 on the platform of Waterloo East one day; she was 4 at the time. We only noticed because there was a blood curdling scream and a streak of red running along the train. DH pulled the emergency break. It happened because there were 4 adults for 4 children + a Christmas weekend's worth of stuff & each adult presumed another adult had her. If it weren't for her scream we wouldn't have noticed until we were all seated & sorted.

mixedpeel · 11/08/2015 19:26

Glad it's all ended well, and find the comments that they drove off on purpose completely barmy, tbh.

CrispyFern · 11/08/2015 19:50

I read that article when it was first written and it has stayed with me for a long time. Really tragic.

LoloKazolo · 11/08/2015 20:00

My parents did this when we were kids! Left my 10 year old sister at the aires and drove some ridiculous way down the autoroute before they realised, I mean, not the horrific article. My dad is still traumatised and it was in about 1994! I can still remember him trying to explain what had happened in crap French on the emergency phone.

They were both teachers as well and highly responsible people. Just a complete and utter brain flange. It happens. To be fair, I didn't notice either and she was meant to be tucked up in actual bed with me. (We were in a camper.)

maddening · 11/08/2015 20:01

I think that the reaction of "how could they -they must be neglectful parents " is a natural response - we all like to think that we - as "good" parents could never forget something so precious - but humans are humans and even the best ones have momentary lapses - and to sit in judgement without knowing the facts is wrong whilst also a v human reaction. there for the grace of god go I and all that imo

Swipe left for the next trending thread