to think it tedious that vegetarians never reciprocate the favour

[Hermi0ne]

Now, I´m not mightily peed off at this, and I really dont want to offend any veg´s here but I have quite a few veg friends and over the years you invite ppl over for meals and in turn get invited etc. I always cater for their vegetarian lifestyle choice (because thats what it is, its not an allergy, thats different), but they never cater for mine. This is just something I´ve been musing about for awhile now, nothing too serious. But I really like my meat and think its unfair that vegetarians expect meat eaters to pander to them but most of them never even dream of doing meat eaters the same favour!

I sort of understand where you're coming from since if you prepare a vegetarian meal you are tailoring a meal to suit their preferences (as a good host should) and yet they don't tailor a meal to suit your preference.

The only problem is that it's not quite so simple when the preferences of one party mean that they are uncomfortable catering for the preferences of the other (I assume you aren't morally uncomfortable cooking without meat).

Therefore you probably are BU, but definitely not worthy of a MN flaming IMO!

"that's ridiculous, you don't need to taste bacon to know how to cook it."

Except you kind of do...is it better grilled or fried? How hot should it be when I put it in? When is it done? They're all dependant on how you like bacon, I don't eat it so if I was going to cook it for someone else I'd have to ask them all that and be going, is that cooked enough for you? Until it is...

They'd be as well making it themselves really.

"Achieve human beings are designed to eat meat. So yes I suppose it's a choice to feed a child a diet that includes meat but it's the natural choice."

You do realise that around 40% of the population of India, for example, are vegetarian? The natural choice for them is a diet that does not include meat!

Tabula, I don't eat bacon, but I know how to cook it (and in a variant of ways). It's really not difficult. I used to do it for a living (as well as other foods I don't eat either), and I found I'm perfectly capable of cooking things I would never put in my own mouth unless I was absolutely starving and had to survive. So, it's not a case of 'can't' or 'don't know how', it's a case of 'won't'. It's absolutely fair choice to chose not to, but no, I never believe the people who say they wouldn't know how. It's not a specialist skill by a long shot.

I won't cook meat in my oven/pans. Especially the oven.

I haven't eaten meat since I was a child. I hate the taste, the scent revolts me and I can always tell when somethings been cooked in an oven or pan that regularly has meat in it. I realise that sounds insane to meat eaters, but it's true. I had dinner at a friends last week, and she made a lovely roast veg dish and an apple pie. All I could taste and smell was roast lamb. I guess there was some fat lingering in her oven. Similar thing at a cafe yesterday. French toast with berries, but it may as well have been a plate of bacon because that's all I was tasting. Toast was probably cooked in the same pan or on the same grill they use for bacon. My dining companion, a meat eater, couldn't taste it, but for me it rendered the dish inedible (at friends houses I just force it down with a smile on my face of course). If I cooked something meaty in my oven, I'd have to immediately get the cleaners in.

If I knew someone who really felt strongly about it I'd buy a cheap pan just for the occasion and I could probably manage to do something with chicken (the least objectionable scent for me), but since I haven't cooked it since my school days and couldn't trust myself to know what it should look/feel like, I'd most likely either give them food poisoning or serve them a piece of charred rubber. I guess I could make bacon or a ham and cheese toasted sandwich. Or ideally I suppose just order them a lovely take-away meal.

In my defense, when I have guests I go all out. Big spread with multiple homemade breads and dips, multiple salads, multiple mains (for instance a curry, a pasta dish and a gratin), a big cheese and fruit plate and 2-3 desserts. If there are kids in attendance there'll be homemade chips and homemade pizza as well. If I have a gluten or dairy intolerant guest then the entire selection will be fine for them to eat. If someone couldn't find plenty to eat at one of my dinner parties I'm not sure how much luck they'd have at anyone's tbh. Worst case I'm sure I could rustle up some frozen chips or mac and cheese, or make pancakes.

LazyLohan I totally get where you're coming from, I felt totally neutral about my DH being veggie until I moved in with him and realised just how much it impacted me personally. Of course I can and do eat/actually enjoy veggie food but I love cooking and enjoy the social aspect of sharing a meal with someone so to have his preference override mine by default every single time became a pain. For instance I love dim sum, it's part of my ethnic heritage and holds happy childhood memories for me in an otherwise shit upbringing, but it's not a meal I could ever partake of with DH. Similarly roast dinners were a no no, I could only get one meat or fish dish if we went out for tapas (unless I ordered more and wasted most of it) etc.

DH eats meat again now and life is much better for it. Having said that the OP is being unreasonable in her scenario, why on earth would one veggie meal in the context of an otherwise meaty diet be a problem? Entertaining can be stressful enough without expecting a vegetarian to add further by having to cook two meals, one of which they'd probably be anxious/uncomfortable about. Why would you want to do that to a friend?

I am a vegetarian. I cook meat for friends and family. (I check how it has been produced of course).

I always take into account what they might like. (No mushrooms, no fish, no pulses, no gluten, no diary - whatever it might be)

Not all vegetarians are the same.

I do see friends on my own, but that tends to be less focused around food and the vast majority of our eating socialising is done as a couple. And as far as being cooked for in someone else's house, that's been basically exclusively as a couple. And although I always cook two meals when people come to ours there is only one when we go to theirs. We don't tend to get invited to larger dinner parties as people don't want to do an extra veggie meal if they're cooking a lot. It does often mean a partner misses out an awful lot. In France we can't really eat out at all, and just a few places in Spain are suitable.

"I never believe the people who say they wouldn't know how. It's not a specialist skill by a long shot."

But it isn't something you just know how to do, it's something you have to learn and I've never learned how to.

It's not something I particularly want to learn either, not for an occasional guest.

If I'm going to take the time to learn how to cook something, it'd be for something I would be eating as well.

I'll happily eat pretty much anything other than meat, so I'd learn to cook other things I'm unfamiliar with, to suit allergies or people who are gluten free or something like that...but no, I'm not going to learn how to cook bacon so a meat eater doesn't have a one off meal without it, because it might well be easy to learn, but it's not something I need or want to cook again.

When my friend gives me a lift, she picks me up in a Peugeot. Selfish woman. Doesn't she know in my 'lifestyle' I drive a Nissan?? Must ditch said friend for not picking me up in a Nissan.

I do sort of see where you're coming from; if you prepare a special, separate dish to cater to someone's life choices when they visit you, then you might not be completely unreasonable to expect the favour to be reciprocated. Or at least feel a little put out.

But then would you really want to eat meat which has been prepared by someone who has no idea how to cook it??

I love my DP. I only cook vegetarian food but he isn't a vegetarian. Does this mean I love him less than I should?! Worse still, I'm inflicting my personal choice on my DS too as he is also vegetarian because I am.

I'm glad that my friends are able to cope with having one vegetarian meal once in a while if they're invited round to dinner. No one seems to have dropped me yet for inflicted vegetarian food on them.

But it isn't something you just know how to do, it's something you have to learn and I've never learned how to.

That's true of anything though, you don't know how to do something until you do it. You have the ability to, just chose not to (and I'm not saying that in a negative way), like I have the ability to learn how to knit, or play the piano. Unless you are the sort of person who could burn water (I did that once as well ), the ability to cook is in everyone, we are just in a privileged position to pick and chose what we can buy, cook and serve. I'm the sort of person who appreciates all food cooked for me, because I've been in the unfortunate position of having to go without. Sometimes it makes me cross seeing people argue this point (on both sides), but, again, it doesn't take away from either side's choice - its just a case of remembering if you really 'had' to, you can cook anything.

To answer some questions, no I dont only eat meat, where did I say that!?
And no I dont expect anyone to cook anything special for me, I eat what Im served, its rude not to.
All I wanted to say is: non vegetarians cater and pander to vegetarians all the bloody time, but I never see it the other way around! (maybe it happens where you live, but not what I have seen). So how is that fair? It was just a musing about that, its a very one sided thing, thats all.

Well I guess you could refuse to "cater for or pander to" your vegetarian friends and serve them up a lamb roast but what the fuck would the point of that be?

Whereas "meat eaters" do eat non meat foods. So you are always catered for.

I really think you are trying very very hard to make this an issue of "fairness" (poor you OP being served nasty non-meat foods by uncaring vegetarians) when it is nothing of the kind.

FyreFly

I do sort of see where you're coming from; if you prepare a special, separate dish to cater to someone's life choices when they visit you, then you might not be completely unreasonable to expect the favour to be reciprocated. Or at least feel a little put out.

But then would you really want to eat meat which has been prepared by someone who has no idea how to cook it?? / end quote

THANK you! That is all I ment! Its really more about give and take. And yes I can live with eating a veg dish, but it just feels one sided. They EXPECT you to pander to them, but if I turn the tabels like with this thread, where Im just musing about it all hell breaks loose! Thats not very balanced is it?

That's true of anything though, you don't know how to do something until you do it. You have the ability to, just chose not to (and I'm not saying that in a negative way), like I have the ability to learn how to knit, or play the piano. Unless you are the sort of person who could burn water (I did that once as well blush), the ability to cook is in everyone, we are just in a privileged position to pick and chose what we can buy, cook and serve

But for me to learn, and for me to produce a delicious plate of food taste and texture is very important. And how can you taste/feel the texture when you can't eat the food?

I could just scrupulously follow a recipe, but IMO they always need tweaking, and tasting as you go.

is it really a favour not serving meat to vegetarians? Or basic sanity?

I mean you would have to be pretty fucking stupid or deluded to invite known vegetarians to dinner and serve them meat, and expect them to eat the meat, wouldn't you? So how on earth can cooking non meat food for vegetarians be described as doing them a "favour" - I just don't get it.

MrsGentlyBenevolent Sat 08-Aug-15 13:45:12

I can see what you mean op, but also agree with others about going one meal without meat. It wouldn't affect me, I love food whether it's meat free or not. My partner however, hates veg. I mean, he will really pick at it and not eat it. There's no chance on earth that he would eat a beautifully cooked veggie meal, so if we were ever invited to a vegetarian's for dinner we probably would have to decline. They very likely wouldn't cater for him (unless they cook meat for others), but yes, his food lifestyle is considered 'silly' and he can 'make do', whilst vegetarians wouldn't be called such things (well, not to their face). Obviously, this is really first world problems, we are all lucky to even have a choice, but it can seem a bit hypocritical at times, that one food lifestyle is more 'superior' to another. I wouldn't start an argument with most vegetarians about it though, far, far too tedious. Just eat the veggie lasagna and smile wink.
/end quote

Exactly, its double standards thats what it is. And how dare I even ask a question here about it!? I must surely be so STUPID! As some very mature people have suggested.

They EXPECT you to pander to them, but if I turn the tabels like with this thread, where Im just musing about it all hell breaks loose! Thats not very balanced is it?

Speaking as a vegan (which is obviously far more inconvenient than a mere vegetarian) I never expect a host to "pander" to me. I am more than happy to bring my own food or just eat sides. I am very grateful when people do go out of their way to feed me. I don't feel I am 'entitled' to be fed based on my (strongly felt) whims.

Perhaps it's your use of the word "pander" that winds people up. In fact your posts on this thread suggest that you have no understanding of their choice to not eat meat and consider it silliness. Again, if it bothers you so much don't invite vegetarians and don't accept invitations from your vegetarian friends.

but if I turn the tabels like with this thread, where Im just musing about it all hell breaks loose!

OP you are assuming that the people disagreeing with you on this thread are vegetarians. Some may well be vegetarians but I'll bet you many are not. I'm far from being a veggie and I couldn't disagree with you more.

"But for me to learn, and for me to produce a delicious plate of food taste and texture is very important. And how can you taste/feel the texture when you can't eat the food?

I could just scrupulously follow a recipe, but IMO they always need tweaking, and tasting as you go."

That's it exactly, yes I can follow instructions or a recipe...but I wouldn't be happy that what I then served would be good and it'd be serving meat for the sake of serving meat, rather than serving something I know tastes nice.

"Exactly, its double standards thats what it is. "

It's not though, because unless someone literally only ever eats meat there are plenty of foods that both parties can eat.

Double standards would be if someone eats meat and most other things but found mushrooms repellant for some reason and the vegetarian then served them mushrooms and that was deemed to be too fussy or pandering and so not catered for.

It's not a dietary preference in the same way as well I quite like meat, unless you're literally cooking what your guest asks for rather than just not cooking them meat.

No, Im not assuming they are all veg. They just go with the mainstream way of thinking. I was just asking to do some mind gym here, question common beliefs. But I know that people dont cope well with this sort of thing, they are way more willing to not question.
Whatever.