To think that those who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima were no better than the nazis who masscred the jews

[ReallyTired]

The dropping of the the two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were genocide. The bombs were diliberately intended to kill unarmed civilians. Neither target was military. There was no need for nuclear weapons as Japan was already on its knees.

So used to living in a reliable cushioned environment that it's difficult to understand the decisions that were made.
Indeed. When you dig down into what was known and what was believed (because that's also important) you can begin to understand why certain events played out the way they did. The Allies only had a very limited knowledge of what happening in some parts of Asia, and sometimes rumour took on the mantle of truth.

I haven't bothered to read the thread, because most of you don't actually want the facts. You just want to spout off.

But 66,000 is not genocide. Not even if you add in the 69,000 who were further injured or sick from radiation.

6m+ is.

Genocide is the systematic killing of a group of people because of a characteristic they share. In the case of the Nazis, mostly Jews. But Gypsies and homosexuals were also targeted.

The bombing of Japan was the only way anyone could see to end the war. Before that 6m number became 12m or 13 or more.

Genocide is the systematic killing of a group of people because of a characteristic they share.

Not just systematic, but eliminationist. The Nazis, post Wannsee, wanted to kill all Jews, as an end in itself. That is genocide. It is ludicrous to claim that was American policy in relation to Japan; the lengths to which America went to reconstruct Japan 1945-55 show why.

Yes, that too, Meta.

Every year we commemorate the second world war, every year, how many people and you dont think Hiroshima was a genocide, oh please. I cant even imagine the wiping out of an entire city in less than a minute let alone try to justify it, some twisted people on here indeed.Will you justify slavery too? How the many other wars that Britain and America have been integral to.

The regular bombing of Japan before the nukes were dropped was causing more civilian casualties and would have continued as the Japanese wee refusing to surrender. These things are so easy to condemn in hindsight and the world HAS condemned them in hindsight. There's a reason they haven't been used since.

YABU. The point of dropping the bombs on Hiroshima was no to maximise civilian casualties, if it had been the bomb would've been dropped over the Kanto region.

You simply can't sit back in your comfy armchair in 2015 and criticise a decision taken back in 1945 at that stage of the war in light of the horrific casualties in the taking of Okinawa. The US had 82,000 casualties, of which 12,500 were dead. The Japanese military had 110,000 killed. Between 30,000 and 100,000 civilians were killed too.

Okinawa is a tiny Island - believed to have had a population of 300,000 prior to the battle. Japan as a whole had a population of over 70m in 1945.

Public opinion was against the risking of allied lives to spare the lives of enemy armed forces and enemy civilians.

I have absolutely no doubt that forcing the Japanese surrender by the dropping of the bombs resulted in lower loss of life than would have occurred had the allies invaded mainland Japan and the battles been like at Okinawa. It is generally understood that the defence of the mainland would have been even more ferocious than at Okinawa.

Oh and by the way British and American people never see themselves as the enemy it is always someone else. Other countries have defended themselves against these two countries before as they considered them to be the enemy. Its easy to place the Japanese as the evil enemy at he time as they are the other. What happened in Hirishoma was not humane how can anybody fought against a nuclear bomb, disgusting.

What happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was terrible and a horrendous loss of life. It was not, however, a deliberate attempt to eradicate an entire race of people from the face of the earth. The holocaust was a very specific event motivated by a desire to entirely destroy a group of people, they are not comparable. They are both atrocities but the desire to compare every atrocity to the holocaust is unnecessary.

Hiroshima was a major industrial and naval centre, with neighbouring Kure being the shipbuilding centre. The other original target was Kokura, which was a munitions depot or something. Nagasaki was chosen in place of Kyoto, which was seen as a civilian target. While Hiroshima and Nagasaki were filled with civilians they were most definitely MILITARY and strategic targets.

Yes I can, we criticise previous regimes and wars all the time including the Nazi's why is this any different.

Oh and by the way British and American people never see themselves as the enemy it is always someone else Are you for real? If someone sees themselves as the enemy it's time to get a medical opinion.

Comparing atrocities to the Holocaust is very relevant as that is what we most hear about. It is important to know that there have been many many other atrocities done in the name of war

British and American people never see themselves as the enemy in history they always try to justify the atrocities the carry out. Slavery is a major part of British and American history and is hardly taught in school why?

The holocaust was not in the name of war! Educate yourself!

And for everyone quoting numbers, those were people not numbers. Im done.

I didnt say it was, reading is fundamental.

You are spectacularly ill informed. I teach history and have a PhD in history looking specifically at the holocaust. I am not Jewish, I have no personal connection to the holocaust. We teach slavery so that students are aware slavery still happens. They are also taught how horrendous it was, it does not in any way glorify slavery!

Nearly every school studying the NC will do slavery in Y8 or Y9. There are some settings where senior managers have made a decision that teaching it is not appropriate.

Gummy drops, slavery is taught quite a lot in school in the states. I took AP american history in high school, learned about the slave trade, slavery in the south, indentured servitude throughout the states, and the civil war. It's a big part of US history curriculum. Can't speak for the UK, though.

Gummy, rather than spouting off, perhaps you should go and read the thread carefully?

I don't think anybody is saying that bombing Hiroshima was a marvellous thing to do. I have certainly said that it was the lesser of two evils, and almost certainly reduced the total number of deaths.

Its easy to place the Japanese as the evil enemy
Well, they made it very easy for the Allies to do just that, didn't they? 300 POWs taken to Labuan Island to build an airstrip, total number of survivors: 0. Decision to build a railway linking Thailand to Burma (an idea rejected by the British as too costly in human lives): end result, >100,000 dead, most of them Asian forced labourers. Biological weapons experiments on human beings in China.

That was the war that the Allies were so keen to end in a hurry. By mid-45 they had a shrewd idea of what was happening in at least some places: Australian troops had fought their way north through Borneo, and knew, at the very least, how the Japanese army had treated the local people.

Jeez, Gummy, please go and inform yourself.

People not numbers. I am very well aware of that. I rather resent being patronised.

Its easy to place the Japanese as the evil enemy

Tell us about Pearl Harbour, Gummy. Were the aircraft holograms, like 9/11 conspiracy theorists might propose?

After Pearl Harbour, what do you suggest the Americans should have done?

70 years later you're looking through rose colored glasses

^^ this

The main point in ops question is not comparing the holocaust with the bombing per se, but comparing the perpetrators....are 'we' as bad as the nazis? Well for many years I believed we were the good ones, but over time, reading about what historically we have done, I have questioned our status as the 'goodies', and certainly we did some awful things....but to compare us to the nazis? No, I really believe we are nothing like that.