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AIBU?

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Original poster

renters should support their landlords against the government

178 replies

carmellas3 · 05/08/2015 15:16

The government are starting to tax landlords more (removal of interest tax relief and ware and tear rules). If nothing is done renters will just end up paying more for rent and landlords fees increase.

There are some bad landlords, but the vast majority just want a stable income and provide a good service for people to rent.

I think the time for landlord bashing has ended.

OP posts:
QueenStromba · 06/08/2015 09:27

You've accidentally highlighted the issue perfectly there Red.

"A landlord to date has been like any other business... So if we are deciding instead to treat landlords differently and tax them on profits they have not made that will just make them either up the rents or invest in something else."

BTL has been wrongly treated like a business by HMRC when, as you admit yourself, it is investment which does not normally come with any of the lovely tax perks that BTL does. High time this was changed.

QueenStromba · 06/08/2015 09:59

If you borrowed money to buy shares then the loan interest would not be taken into account when calculating how much tax you need to pay on the dividends. Borrowing money to buy houses is directly comparable to this so why should you be able to offset your interest agains your rental income?

groupon44 · 06/08/2015 10:26

Fruu, thanks for highlighting that survey, I have just completed it. Yes, landlords who abuse their tenants should go to jail and the tenant should be able to claim compensation (the landlord should have their property seized under proceeds of crime act).

cestlavielife · 06/08/2015 10:40

Borrow to let landlords shoukd be taxed. It s fair. They have an asset which in all likelihood will only increase in value long term. there are plenty landlords who won't be affected so the rent in an area will be determined by demand.
Landlords could claim 10% expenses without doing anything.

Campaign instead for more building of rental properties at fair rents .

Howcanitbe · 06/08/2015 10:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

achieve6 · 06/08/2015 10:57

I don't think BTL or second home owners are "unpopular" - for me there's just an issue about how those things sit within the economy. If they were adjusted people would be less annoyed.

as for second homes, plenty of people complain about second home owners hardly being in their property and reducing local stock.

Notice the OP has not returned.

keepitsimple0 · 06/08/2015 11:02

Dragon but if these changes went through you would end up paying more rent as the landlord passes the cost onto you! That's the point.

not every cost is passed down to the tenant. Some will just make it less pleasant to be a BTL.

As QueenS pointed out, BTL is out of line with other investments. It should be straightened out.

if you want rents to come down, what should happen is home building.

RedDaisyRed · 06/08/2015 12:09

(My £1k should haev been £1 above!)

"BTL has been wrongly treated like a business by HMRC when, as you admit yourself, it is investment which does not normally come with any of the lovely tax perks that BTL does. High time this was changed."

Ahem,... well any business in the country who borrows sets their interest against their turnover to work out profit. Any bsuiness in the country which makes a capital gain pays tax on it so far so identical to buy to let.

Now we can change things and tax buy to let landlords as people buying shares and say it's just investment but that does rather change what is actually is. If it's just buy the share and stick it in a cupboard and forget babout it for 10 years that is totally different from most landlords - my daughter who would be up at 6am dealing with a blocked toilet or spendign £21k on a new boiler for the tenants or people yet again coming out to rescue student tenants who are locked out. It has always been a hybrid between business and investment. It is a very hard working active investment with a lot of hard graft on the landlord's part. I remember now all those years of stripipng back walls, on hands and knees doing the place up etc. nothing like putting a few thousand into BT shares.

QueenStromba · 06/08/2015 12:22

So it's a particularly crappy investment that you have to keep pumping time and money into. So?

BreakingDad77 · 06/08/2015 12:24

But I also think that the current situation where a tenant can refuse to pay for months and just walk away owing thousands also needs to be changed

What?? surely its in the contract, you give notice, make an application to court and get them evicted.

A family member works for county court, continually rolls eyes at some of the landlords.

oh unless your a tax dodger trying to keep all this off the books.

Our friends have had mostly bad landlords with damp problems and the landlords shirking out of sorting it.

RedDaisyRed · 06/08/2015 12:38

Yes, it takes about 2 - 3 months to get an eviction order and you rarely get your 3 months of lost rent or your court costs back from the tenant and no one is paying your mortgage during that period. It is all biased against the landlord. I am so glad I don't let properties out any more.

(We also sold ours at a 50% loss (!!!) in the 90s property crash).

BreakingDad77 · 06/08/2015 12:51

It is all biased against the landlord

Well usually they not paying rent as they don't have any money, though thats kinda what refs are for. There is a notorious single parent who has moved from house to house only paying rent for first month then waiting to be evicted.

Renters whose landlord was pocketing your rent rather than paying the mortgage which has lead to a 30 day eviction notice suddenly slapped on you house might disagree. In addition to losing your deposit having any money to move esp if your on low income.

QueenStromba · 06/08/2015 12:52

"It is all biased against the landlord"

Hah! Can I have some of what you've been smoking please? The UK has the worst tenants' rights in Europe coupled with the highest rents.

sleeponeday · 06/08/2015 13:14

Tenants can be buggers. A friend rented out their place because they couldn't afford one big enough for two kids - they rented a larger house and let theirs. The tenant trashed it, never paid a penny, then did a runner just before the eviction. Cost them an absolute bomb, none of which they will see again.

But the CAB say they see huge problems with terrible landlords never fixing anything, and then if the tenants complain and try to make them, they get evicted. Totally illegal to retaliatory evict like that, but happens a lot, apparently.

Shitty people will rent, and shitty people will be renters. There's no monopoly of virtue on either side. The only undeniable fact is that rental landlords looking for buy-to-lets have helped drive up prices for the average buyer to sky high levels, and that's not right. Rent controls and making landlords pay interest (or letting buyers offset that against their own wages) is the only real answer, I suspect.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/08/2015 13:34

Those singing the praises of BTL should have a look at student rentals.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/08/2015 13:35

Posted to soon,

It may change your minds. (though I doubt it)

RedDaisyRed · 06/08/2015 14:52

If you do anything like cut off the power or change the locks and take the tenants' stuff out of the flat or remove them without spending thousands going to court for not paying rent then the landlord can go to prison. If the tenant does not pay rent with the result the landlord's property is repossessed no one puts the tenant in prison.

(My day for typos - the new boiler was £2k)

LazyLouLou · 06/08/2015 15:06

All of the posts here just show that neither landlord nor tenant have a monopoly on being gobshites.

It really isn't a tenants charter that is needed. It is a rental charter, protecting both sides for the worst of each other.

Looking at student rentals just gives you yet more examples of shite landlords and equally shite tenants. Having rented as a student some of the people I shared with were appalling. The landlord was lovely to me and 2 others but was a bear with a sore head to the other 2. I'll let you guess who were the tenants who trashed the walls and carpets and who kept their rooms as you would want to find them.

sleeponeday · 06/08/2015 15:08

Agreed, Lou.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/08/2015 15:24

Lou

I agree that there are " examples of shite landlords and equally shite tenants" but some of the student rentals are not even remotely fit for purpose.

LazyLouLou · 06/08/2015 15:36

Oh, I have seen some of them, Boney. Rescued DNephew from one. His housemates then trashed the next one (he swears it wasn't him, of course).

But two wrongs and all that!

Which is why I won't sign the petition upthread. It won't address the full issue.

throwingpebbles · 06/08/2015 15:36

All those landlords bemoaning the shitty tenants, well, apart from the reluctant landlords (eg those who cannot sell their property or whatever) then why choose to get into the business? Why not invest your money in something less morally dubious.
I cannot imagine feeling comfortable with myself if I was buying up properties to let and thereby being part of the phenomenon that makes it so hard for many to get on to the housing ladder

LazyLouLou · 06/08/2015 15:39

morally dubious?

Do we really have to go over that again?

insert long list of people who would be homeless is private landlords did not exist.... again

QueenStromba · 06/08/2015 15:42

Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.
Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.
Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.

QueenStromba · 06/08/2015 15:42

Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.
Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.
Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.Homes do not stop existing if not owned by a landlord.