renters should support their landlords against the government

[carmellas3]

The government are starting to tax landlords more (removal of interest tax relief and ware and tear rules). If nothing is done renters will just end up paying more for rent and landlords fees increase.

There are some bad landlords, but the vast majority just want a stable income and provide a good service for people to rent.

I think the time for landlord bashing has ended.

Whirlpool - hear hear! And I think a lot of landlords realise this because goodness knows what will happen when generation rent can't work anymore, can't buy and can't possibly fund rent out of savings.

you are not the only landlord I know who thinks the situation needs to be changed.

Disconcerted - it is a distortion because BTL isn't a business, it's investment/speculation. HMRC do not let you deduct interest payments from income if you borrow money to invest in the stock market - why should BTL be any different?

YY it has always struck me that the incentives for speculators to invest in property are perversely generous.

Why did the government want this to happen? As obviously the incentives were put in place to encourage it.

(I have no idea what govt brought this in or if there have been things like this in place for decades or what0.

A distinction should be made between landlords who have structured their affairs responsibly, and others who are nothing more than taxpayer-subsidised debt junkie chancers who couldn't care less about ensuring their customers' security if it means curtailing their ability to hoover up precious housing resources at the maximum rate possible.

Unsurprisingly the ones making the biggest noises about these changes are the ones who have specifically pursued the strategy whereby they carry as much debt as possible(with no repayment plan) and leverage price rises into new purchases, pricing out would be owner-occupiers in the process who cannot compete due to both the tax relief system and the need for a repayment plan.

Some of these landlords have a big problem looming as they have unwittingly spent their CGT payments which will fall due on disposals when they remortgaged them out to fund their lifestyle/new purchases. They are walking dead, financially speaking, and ought to be put out of their misery as soon as possible.

Howcanitbe You raise a useful point about people leaving properties empty. I think that this is an area where the "nudge" unit should take a look and give incentives to bring properties into use or face a punitive tax regime.

A the end of my road is a beautiful (well it could be) 5 bed home built in Edwardian times. An investor brought it probably with the intention of turning it into flats. Its in a conservation area so there may be restrictions on doing this. It was brought about 10 years ago and the owner has done nothing with it apart from leave the attic windows open so that birds can fly in.

I asked my local councillor to look in to it but he said that as it is owned by a private individual who likely paid too much for it because he was to lazy to do the research nothing could be done.

Meanwhile we have homeless families and tax payers have to subsidise landlords through Housing benefit.

No government brought it in Whirlpool - all mortgage interest used to be tax deductable under MIRAS but Gordon Brown abolished it in 2000 for owner occupiers but not BLT. This whole BTL mess is Labour's fault - it is in their interest for the majority to be renters as renters vote Labour.

Ah I wondered if there was a historical reason.

I wonder what the next loophole will be for people with dosh that they want to minimise tax on, to exploit.

And aside from that

I feel really strongly that they need to do something about foreign investment in London property. It's caused such massive problems.

rent controls don't work the way people think they do. my city has rent controls and the result is a massive affordable housing shortage because investors have no incentive to build rental housing. also, there's ways around rent controls.

Whirlpool - yes!! They should be subject to punitive tax to put them off investing in London but they are encouraged because the establishment think it's fun for London to be Monte Carlo. I remain mystified as to why. just the super rich protecting the super rich I guess.

you know One Hyde Park Corner is practically empty as no one lives there and of those who do, I gather a really low number are eligible to pay council tax. So this trickledown stuff....all shit. No one benefitted apart from the developer and the flatowners and a prime part of Central London is blooming empty while others battle long commutes daily. Argh.

Did you watch the BBC2 programme on the super rich? It was very interesting. I don't mind if people want to play stupid with cars or gold bars but housing is too important to be classified as a way to max profit.

The government have already closed a fair few tax loopholes that made UK property really attractive to overseas buyers such as capital gains tax exemptions etc. After the July budget I expect to see a lot more. Most of the UK banks have passed the stress tests and the property market has sucked in a load of money greedy investors - I think they're about ready to pop the bubble.

Oh Carmella. Don't be funny its money for nothing. There is very little work involved.
And they don't choose to rent. They have no choice because people with money. Eg 'you' paid more than necessary for a house. Resulting in a young family being priced out the marlet and been forced to to rent

Don't pretend its anything else. Landlords must stop pretendinng they are doing some sort of duty and 'helping' the rest of us out. You're in it for the money honey. Nothing else. If you want to help. Sell your properties and help stop the property inflation.

I have been a landlord, reluctantly, and was a tenant at the same time.

Queen - I know they've closed loopholes but I would really like to see punitive measures. I don't think closing loopholes will be enough.

if we really did end up with a big collapse, one tragedy would be the green space lost in London for posh flats.

*unless we demolish and re-green the spaces but that won't happen.

Crumbs, what a mess.

Yeah, I really don't think there's a housing shortage in London. You just need to get the train from Clapham Junction to Waterloo to see that there's plenty of flat building going on.

No, landlords are not being landlords for duty. But good ones (the majority) are making money responsibly, providing a product that tenants may or may not decide to buy. That's how a free market works.

OP you keep referring to free markets while asking for a market distorting subsidy.

Moreover, housing is as far from a free market as is possible. Supply is severely constrained.

Also, your reference to a few rogue landlords flies in the face of reports from Shelter, Generation Rent and others. Bad landlords aren't an insignificant minority.

The rental sector is stacked heavily and unfairly in landlords' favour and is under regulated. I say this even though I've not rented for over a decade so I've no 'skin in the game'.

Can you really not see how the whole thing has been rigged in the BLT landlords' favour Down? Interest relief not available to owner occupiers, interest only mortgages not available to OOs, wear and tear allowance not available to OOs, MMR applied to OOs but not BLT. Do I really need to go on?

Oh dear carmellas, this didn't go quite as you hoped, did it? Were you hoping for head pats from your whiny chums at Property 118 that you'd enlightened the masses of Mumsnet?

I am a landlord, I rent out a property I own. That I own, not the bank. The new rules make no difference to me, because I don't claim interest relief, because I've invested my own money, not the banks. I pay tax on the income from my rent, as I do on my income from my salary.

I loathe George Osborne, but he's played a blinder here. This only hits landlords who have leveraged. It's so pointless to say that investors will take their money elsewhere. They don't gave any bloody money, that's the whole thing about BTL, it is all based on debt. Banks would never have lent you money to invest in gold or shares or fine art, and the shouldn't have been allowed to lend spivs money to speculate on houses.

That's interesting about mortgage interest queen I did wonder why UK didn't have it, when other countries do. I only moved there in 2006 so didn't know it was available previously.

Providing a service for renters. Hahaha. They could fix my gas fire that's been condemned for over a year for a start. Roll on right to buy.

'A modest portfolio'
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I think anyone who uses that phrase should be immediately put out of their misery.

Taxpayer subsidized loan rates for BTL loans. Lloyds openly advertise a 1% rate discount due to taxpayer subsidies!

£25Bn housing benefit bill (£1,000 per household in the UK average! A bloody grand a year each!) most of which goes straight to landlords, and allows people to avoid confronting the problem that housing is on average unaffordable.

There's precisely nothing 'free' about the housing racket in the UK, whether you are a renter or a buyer.

Oh Carmella
Comedy Gold- No one is forced to rent off a landlord
Of course not. Cardboard boxes are a completely viable housing option.