to be horrified at the behaviour in bohunt school

[SEsofty]

Just watched the programme about Chinese teachers in uk. Whilst I appreciate that it is reality tv and thus exaggeration for effect I was still horrified with the apparent number of children who were talking in class.

I'm not that accident and went to a very normal school but talking whilst teacher did simply didn't happen. I don't agree with the Chinese methods but talking whilst someone is trying to teach you is simply rude.

I really wasn't sure.The Head of Bohunt seemed very smug in earlier episodes which I took as confidence that he was sure of a victory .

I wonder if the kids had concentrated for the full 4 weeks rather than apparently the final two weeks whether they would have done even better?

Headmaster needs to watch his tone when talking about education systems fom other countries.

Am now watching School swap -the class divide on itv. Looks like that could be interesting too.Private v State.

Mehitabel6- please can you give some reasons? I am genuinely interested.

I would have been more surprised by the maths result if we hadn't seen the less able students having an extra two hours of maths lessons, and doing a far more appropriate level of maths (lines of symmetry and transformations).

I wonder how many extra hours of support the less able had in total? I think they were doing the extra maths when the other students were in supervised prep.

I think that the triumph of the Chinese system here was in the long school day which gave the opportunity for this sort of intensive catch-up, rather than the didactic teaching in the main class.

The Chinese maths teacher was also excellent, I really liked him and how he related to the students.

"I can think of plenty of reasons for a teenager to finish at 3 pm."

I can too. My kids do lots of outside school stuff they couldn't do in Chinese School- stuff that I consider important too.

WRT the length of the school day, independent schools commonly have an 8.30-5.30 day. This often includes 2 afternoons of activities and/or sport. It more closely follows working parents' hours, the teachers don't seem to complain, the kids get all their homework done and manage to pursue outside interests if they wish. I've yet to see any argument why this regime could not be followed in the State sector.

If you mean reasons for finishing early it is because we are all different ( despite being told we are not in this thread). I need solitude and silence after all those hours at school. I used to read and unwind. I liked to do my homework in my own time, later after a break. I did not want to do it straight after lessons with others. If I didn't go home I liked to visit the library or go shopping ( not always easy at weekends). I liked to take the dog for a walk, chat to my mother.
A lot of teenagers are carers- very stressful for them to worry about disabled parents at home and having the washing cooking etc to do.
Others need to look after younger siblings.
There are activities and clubs and lessons etc after school.
How would I have got to my piano lesson? What about dentist appointments.
I could go on but I am off to bed.

But lots of state school kids do the 2 hours of extra curriculars you're talking about outside school..........

The teachers don't complain because they are not working all that time! They have longer holidays. Friends that I know in private schools don't have anything like the workload of those in state schools.
Schools are not child care! Independent schools may have longer hours but they are being paid for!

I've yet to see any argument why this regime could not be followed in the State sector.

Because state school teachers are paid for 1265 hours directed time per year. Add another two hours onto the school day and who is going to be staffing and paying for it?

mehitabel as private and state schools have to teach the same number of hours each year by law, and the students all take the same GCSE's and A levels, I don't understand your comment about workload. Yes private school teachers get longer holidays but they work longer hours every day so it evens out surely?

The country simply can't afford it. End of.

Not the ones that I know- I am green with envy!

bertrand they don't do 2 hours of extra curricular activities every day. They do typically 2 afternoons a week for sport and activities. Other days lessons continue till 5.15 followed by house/form time with a 5.30 home time. Prep is done at home as well as any other activities like sport or music. The school is not providing childcare. It is educating the students.

If you don't get home til 6.30 and then have homework, you have no time for anything else at all. No music, no Scouts, no ballet, no watching TV no looking after pets or family time.........

Well my teens' music and dancing exam certificates and square eyes would argue against you bertrand . It's full on I agree, but eminently doable

But how is it doable? Md ds for example, has sport of some sort most days after school. So he gets home about 5.15 Walks the dog most days. Homework. Dinner. Music. Then at least 3 nights a week he's out to something- the things normally start at 7.30 If he didn't get home til 6( and most private school kids have a longer journey than he does) he wouldn't have time to do any of his things. Even the way it is, he doesn't do as much homework as I want or as much music practise as he wants - there just isn't time. And time to stand and stare is important.

Wow, I didn't expect the Chinese school to win at all, let alone by such huge margin in Maths 68% vs 55%... And what about English?

As Nobble sais, triumph it is.

I wonder how many extra hours of support the less able had in total? I think they were doing the extra maths when the other students were in supervised prep.

I think that the triumph of the Chinese system here was in the long school day which gave the opportunity for this sort of intensive catch-up, rather than the didactic teaching in the main class.

But UK teenagers do have a school day that goes to 7 pm and beyond. In my DD academy they finish at 3:30, get home by 4 and are expected to do 2.5 – 3 hours of homework every day and on week-end. So once you count home work and independent work , clubs and breaks, the UK school day is actually longer than the Chinese one.

The added bonus is that in the Chinese model the teachers could give the students additional, 2 or more hours of support time – fantastic, I can’t think of better support for my DC.

I trully think this didactic style works much better for introverted intuitive learners who don't need the chatter of their peers and teachertainment to form their ideas and learn. They recognise patterns and make conections in their own quiet hidden way and for my deeper learning than with arrogant teachers putting then on the "ability tables" and capping their potential.

Is anyone setting up a school with the best features of this yet?

Vanilla, the Chinese school kids were doing homework once they got home from school too.

One thing not mentioned in the Chinese model was that the teachers only had one class, and could focus all their efforts on those kids. When they weren't teaching their lesson, they were free to prep, mark, chase up students etc. The Bohunt teachers would have had a full timetable, exam classes, other prep and marking to do.

Certainly in Shanghai where the excellent PISA results come from, the teachers have a minute teaching timetable (can't remember, something like 25-40%) where English teachers teach 90% of the week.

Regardless of teaching method, we would get better results if we had the kids for 12 hours a day, and a much reduced teaching timetable.

Surely the results tell us bugger all about which style of teaching gets the best learning. It tells us what we expect that more study = more learning. If the English style teaching had the same ratio of contact then the result could have been different surely?!?

Not only was the Bohunt HT horrifically smug in the early episodes, he also managed to be horrifically smug in the final episode after learning that the Chinese School had better results.

I feel he was very wedded to a particular educational orthodoxy - and nothing was going to ever shift his self-satisfied smirk opinion that his was was the right and only way.

It would also be helpful to discuss what is good in the model presented in Bohunt experiment.

For those results to occure, a greater number of students did significantly better with the Chinese method. The Bohunt Maths teacher is very content with himself, but his students achieved an unimpressive 55%, that is an overall D, right?

The UK maths teaching has a methodological weakness that cannot be compensated by excellent teaching, because their is never going to be enough excellent teachers.

The modernised "progressive" teaching style disadvantages perfectly bright intuitive learners and doesn't improve results for low achievers. It just puts gloss over their falling progressively behind.

I am certain the organisation of teachers’ time could improve and this is a very constructive conversation to have.

Personally I don't think such huge difference is results (68% vs 55%), achieved in such a short time, with such headwind and disruption in the first 2 weeks, could be explained away by longer hours. It is statistically impossible to achieve without greater number of students doing much better with the Chinese method. It is just a method that works best, that is why it was used for centuries and is “traditional”. Because it works.

It is not uniquely Chinese, it evolved based on intuitive insight into being effective – it helps to concentrate, to stay productive, to be motivated and ambitious. It is also a method that suits better a larger number of learning styles.