AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

[Spearshake]

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

Well, if we're going to blame the Christians for Nazi policy, we might as well take a look at the Evian Conference of 1938, when the Nazis tried to find homes for the Jews in other countries and found that Europe and America didn't want them, either.

google John Chrystostom - early Christian bishop of Constantinople who wrote and preached tracts against jews and "judiazers". he dates back to the 4th century AD.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversus_Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), Chrysostom denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight sermons delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[3] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his sermons, Chrysostom criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as observing the sabbath, submitting to circumcision and pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[4]

is sermons against Jews gave further momentum to the idea that Jews are collectively responsible for the death of Jesus.

4th century AD baby. I'd say that was a pretty darn long time ago.

Dora but that kinda proves christianity was behind the dislike, as both Europe and the US were dominated by Christians back then.

I don't think anyone here is blaming Christians for nazi policy, more that church anti-semitism was one of the roots of their policy.

Someone said that it was the culmination of Christian antipathy. It wasn't. It was a strand in the Nazi policy of purifying the Arian Race, in which the disabled, the mentally infirm and criminals perished, too.

mehitabel I don't know about the rest of your link, but point 4 is incorrect. Matthew's Gospel explicitly lifts the blame for Jesus' death from the Romans and put it on the Jews. Pilate washes his hands of the killing. I think the early church in some places made Pilate a Saint.

The relevant part of Matthew 27 is
22 “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, “Crucify him!”

23 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

24 When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

25 All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

26 Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

yes noble. I read somewhere that he wrote that because they were aiming to get more converts from among the Romans, which they couldn't have done as easily if they blamed J's death on them.

Dora the full name was The Final Solution to the Jewish Question.

I think there was self-preservation in there too, Last.

i'm sure. don't fuck with the roman empire. they could kill you

it's really fascinating to me how much of xianity was influenced by the politics of the time - and by the Roman empire. really a lot alot a lot. And ancient greek thought/culture.

PBS did a great programme about early christians.

how early christianity = protest cult against the worst excesses of the roman empire, of which there were a lot, and very little compassion. many of the first converts outside of the jews were roman soldiers. really interesting stuff.

also, there's a good series of books called "city of god" about how early christianity spread, and how it had an advantage over pagan cults because it took care of it's members, had charity, etc.

/nerd

Martin Luther, he of the Reformatiom:

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare to Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are

to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them;
to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians;
for Jewish religious writings to be taken away;
for rabbis to be forbidden to preach;
to offer no protection to Jews on highways;
for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping and given back to Jews who truly convert; and
to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their noses.

His treatise was displayed at the Nuremburg rallies.

yup Luther was a major anti-semitic cuntwallop of the highest order.

imo christianity owes an incredible amount to judaism in terms of it's ideas. it would be a great day when we as a culture acknowledged that properly.

You have free choice AlanP - terrible things happen with free choice. Would you really want that taken away?

god doesn't have to take our free will away to stop us. If I stop a thief from stealing, I don't do it by removing his free will to steal, I do it by physically stopping him.

God could do so similarly.

Also, there is no free will in getting hit by a natural disaster, yet god allows those too. he also allows cancer.

anyway, back in the day DD had two very xian friends. One was a JW. She would come home and spout things like "gay people are wrong" and "mummy do we believe in Jesus? such and such said people who don't believe in Jesus go to hell" etc

So had the whole "some people believe xyz, we don't, Jesus was probably a nice jewish boy who tried to make things better but not a God, etc etc" conversation

It was from Judaism online noblegiraffe and what they think and I Didn't think they recognised NT and your quotes - but I could be wrong.

I disagree keepit simple - you either have free will or you don't - you can't pick and choose. Humanity should be working it out and not an authority figure. Life isn't black and white - you get into huge areas of grey.
It is hardly free will if you say to someone 'it is entirely up to you unless I happen to disagree'!

you either have free will or you don't - you can't pick and choose. Humanity should be working it out and not an authority figure. Life isn't black and white - you get into huge areas of grey.

so if I stop a thief, he doesn't have free will? that makes zero sense. he will is still free.

how do you suppose that we solve these problems among ourselves if we can't stop or convince others to stop?

also, you didn't address natural disasters.

Mehitabel your link says:
"Deicide -- a) the Christian Bible says the Romans killed Jesus, though Jews are mentioned as accomplices (claims that Jews killed Jesus came several hundred years later)."
Not true

"How come the accomplices are persecuted and there isn't an anti-Roman movement through history?"

Because Matthew took the blame from the Romans

" b) Jesus himself said, "Forgive them [i.e., the Jews], for they know not what they do.""

At this point he was talking about the soldiers who were dividing his clothes about putting him on a cross, not the Jews.

But the link is trying to dismiss all the usual reasons. If you read the next page, it tries to argue that people hate the Jews because they are the collective conscience of humanity and they make them feel bad.

last I love a bit of early Christian history, I might look up those books :)

lastuser, I do know the history of my faith. You don't have the first inkling to presume what I know about my faith.

A group of Jews, including some of the leaders, called for Jesus' crucifixion, but not every single Jew. It is wrong to blame all Jews for that and I never have. I have the utmost respect for the Jewish people, I support Israel and the Jewish people totally.

What I find disturbing is that you and others have so much hatred for Christians and think it's ok to put entire groups of people into categories, that's exactly what Hitler did. And I know all about Hitler's twisting of Christian concepts for his own use to justify his evil deeds. He was no more a Christian than you are.

Have you so narrow a life and mind that you don't know any Christians personally and so feel all puffed up to make these offensive assertions about an entire group? That's called being bigoted. Some of the atheists on this thread are so obnoxious, why in the world have a conversation with them at all?

Atheists commit murders too so that means atheists by nature of being atheists are murderers, using your twisted logic. And what about terrorists' belief systems? Does that mean the entire group is responsible for the evil actions of a few who would find any excuse to blame for their own despicable behavior.

I have good relationships with atheists and Buddhists, people totally different than me and people with different belief systems than mine. It's called respect.

I think some of you just want to argue and have no desire to listen or learn about others' viewpoints and you come out of the gate insulting others the whole thread and then you act like the innocent party when you get called on it. I call that your being eager to dish it out but not being able to take it.

Er, lash you appear to be taking a remark about Nazis and thinking it is about you.

No one has said that all Christians are antisemetic. Calm down.

lash well you didn't seem to know about the well-known history of anti-semitism in Christianity, so, um, there's that. But if you do, why are you arguing that christianity isn't a wee bit anti-semitic?

it's weird. it's like you're not even responding to what I actually wrote, rather some other argument. show me where i said I hate christians etc etc or said i didn't know xians.

oh, never mind. you're all upset.

oh that jesus. for a nice jewish boy, he's sure caused a lot of dramz.

It would be something that you need to take up with Judaism online, noblegiraffe - they are the ones explaining why there is anti-semitism.
Maybe as Jews they are trying to dismiss the usual views of non Jews.
I wasn't giving my reasons.

If there is a God I really don't understand where this expectation is that they will constantly interfere. It all depends on the purpose of life.

If you believe in God then there must be a purpose-of which we are in ignorance.
If you don't believe in God then there is no purpose, other than ones you make yourself, it is all random.