To think the Chinese Teachers that taught in a English Comprehensive in Hampshire need to concentrate on their own countries problems.

[sunshield]

This experiment taken by BBC 2 ' Are our children tough enough' proves how far removed Chinese teaching methods are from , creating independent creative thinkers.

The Chinese teachers actually buy in to their 'state driven' dogmatic culture, that breeds total obedience to the state of china. They are also victims because they are unable to accept , that independent thinking is the key to a happy life.

China has abject poverty for 99% of the population, yet they decry a system that 'no matter that it is being altered ' still attempts to ensure no one starves on the street.

There is also another question to be asked about the PISA results , why do they only show schools from Shanghai ?. We could respond by only quoting results from Private or Grammar schools, because their results have been 'doctored'.

The quote we only have one type of syllabus in China 'survive or die' is typical of a state controlled workforce. This also shows they have no compassion for anyone who does not fit the norm though either academic intelligence or through Autism etc. The comment about not understanding the child who ran out of the class about 'One Direction' proves they have no understanding about teenage problems, whoever trivial.

The English education system needs to take no advice from the Chinese education system, despite what the baying mob think on the Daily Mail website think.

What's your point moops? I contradicted the op and said that 99% of Chinese do not live in abject poverty. You think that the statement t is true and the Chinese would be too afraid to come on mumsnet and contradict what anyone is saying?
Some Chinese are critical of their education system, but the worry is if they opt out of this very competitive system it's their child who could suffer and fall behind - therefore everyone puts up with it even if the system is crazy. I don't believe it's fear of the government which prevents change, rather the fear of doing something which could have negative consequences for their child.
There is criticism of the government here - look at Chinese comment sites like weibo and certainly issues which have been criticised ( pollution and corruption) are starting to be addressed.

If hating a repressive regime makes me ignorant, I'm cool with that!

Your comments highlight your ignorance, not your dislike of the regime.

I'm Chinese and have a lot of family in HK and extended family on the mainland.

I've grown up here and my kids have been schooled in the UK. Personally I'm glad. I wouldn't want the pressure that is placed on the kids over there to be here.

That being said.....the UK is in my opinion too far the other way. But this isn't the school's fault. It's society's attitude.

In Asia, not just China. An education is a privilege, not a right. Your parents are invested in making sure you succeed and will accept no second best. We're not happy if our kids wander home with a report full of C's. We want to know why they didn't get an A.

It sounds harsh and here I am often accused of being too pushy. The reality is I'm not. I'm actually fairly laid back I think.

My point is that parental attitudes are totally different in China/Asia. Parents would go NUTS if their child misbehaved and disrepected their teachers. Teachers are respected, revered and their word is law. In the UK teachers are not overly respected. I've seen many posts on MN from parents who want to get their precious cherubs out of a detention. In China if a teacher gave you a detention, your parents would follow that up with another punishment for getting the detention in the first place!

In reality there is a happy middle ground. I don't want the Asian pressure/competition but I do believe the UK can do so much more & better if we as a society had a better attitude.

Nice guy, I totally agree there. There are too many British parents who want the education system here to provide all it can for them but give teachers and schools no backing. As I said in post above, some of the worst attitudes and behaviour I have ever come across are in "naice" leafy comps with children who are very entitled and who know their parents will back them and not the school. Mumsnet, as is so often the case, wants to have its cake and eat it.

Quite frankly most parents posting on here would object to the rigidity of the system in China as well as the lack of individual attention given to their cherubs, while they also use Chinese education as a stick to beat teachers with.

How do I know their rooms are immaculate? My best mate is an estate worker responsible for the accommodation . She regularly inspects their rooms!

Agree with comments that it's not just China - take a look at South Korea.

I think its down to individual responsibility

People in Britain are quick to blame their school or teachers for their own exam results and ultimately for their lack of sucess

In aspirational societies, people blame themselves

Nice I think it is a bit of a class issue too.

The nasty middle classes are berated by gov let alone media,MN and schools.

The white middle classes who want their kids to stand on their own two feet later in life,work hard and achieve their full potential are often derided.

It's seen as socially exceptable for the upper classes to push their DC in top private schools.It is also ok for minority groups to have high expectations and for immigrants to push their kids into a better life than their parents.However when the white MC try to push their kids they are seen as child abusing,grabby sharp elbowed daemons.

That message spreads.

I also think benefits do have an impact( no idea how you rectify that though) and the celebrity culture has a lot to answer for. The amount of kids I've seen who truely believe homework and school don't matter because they will be the next Beckham or pop star due to them being good at football or able to dance a bit is shocking.

I think there are flaws and strengths in any system.

We would be wise to always be looking at what IS working elsewhere, and what ISN'T working here.

The worst attitude is to have this blinkered response that there is nothing wrong with what we are doing so don't change anything afterall those in China don't have the same lifestyle and life opportunities.

We need to remember that we do live in a global economy and our children WILL need to compete in someway with Chinese children to keep the UK at the leading edge of technology and enterprise.

A shit British work ethic and an attitude that we are somehow superior because of our democratic ways is going to do bugger all to help that.

I totally agree.

"shit British work ethic"

From the country that works the longest hours in Europe, and has higher levels of productivity per hour than Japan? Ha Ha

Interesting article:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/04/china-schools-testing-britain-copy-government-pupils?CMP=fb_gu

Well, Nicola Sturgeon has been in America looking at how to 'turn failing schools around' (as Primary Ed in Scotland under the SNP's Curriculum for Excrementellence is such a howling failure).

I gather she is now in China.

Quite apart from the fact she should be fixing issues at home rather than flouncing around the world being a 'World Leader', I worry what sort of lessons she is learning.

Hang on, 1 party ideologically driven state - how to tell if it's China or Scotland???

Shit work ethic yes.

Pulling a sickie is generally a socially acceptable thing in one of the two countries, to the point that we joke about it. In the other I don't think it would be quite so boasted about.

Interesting article longtimelurker and one which makes a lot of sense.
However as a teacher I can't be doing with some of the rude and 'entitled' pupils I have taught recently and their very rude parents.

I'm a supply teacher so have to be prepared for pupils expecting me to be a soft touch (I'm not). In my experience each school is unique and I've taught in all sorts of schools including private day, progressive day/boarding, state in 'deprived' areas, all Muslim pupils state, 'naice' area state etc. etc.

The pupils who were most difficult to engage were in state schools in 'leafy' areas. (Please do not pick me up on my descriptors).
The most joyful thing in teaching is having a lively discussion about the subject. However if the class do not want to learn then they can't pick up the basics in the first place.

No school system is perfect and there are no doubt things we can learn from many different systems. I work in the language training field and regularly interview language teachers from all over the world. It is striking how different the approaches are to education. But the best qualified, most creative and hardest working people I have encountered at work have in general come from countries which focus on a classical general education at secondary level and then specialise at university. And that's definitely not the case in the UK, at least not when it comes to linguists. Most CVs I review for English teaching jobs are pitiful in comparison to those I see for Eastern European/Russian jobs for example. Although there are many other reasons for that, the differences in education systems across those countries has a definite role.

But redtootbrush, the international data that talks about performance, from the same organisation that produces the PISA tests says we're more productive per hour worked than the Japanese, French and almost any other democratic country other than Germany.

Use data you don't actually understand at your peril dearie, mwah

classical general education at secondary level and then specialise at university.
That sounds like my Scottish state education in the 1970s, Ginnels.
What has gone wrong? I would like to hear your thoughts.

Nice I think you have hit the nail on the head. I'm a teacher and head of year. Our standards of teaching and pastoral care in this country are very good. However, behaviour of pupils is an issue in all schools (some much worse than others) and schools do not always have the support of the government or parents. I've removed a pupil from an end of term trip (a reward for good behaviour) for persistent poor behaviour, only to receive a barrage of abuse from the parents and have them take their child to the theme park on the same day and allow them to meet up with their friends. The absolute most that we, as a school, can do is 'unauthorise' the absence from school and request that the parents attend a meeting with the head (which the parents can refuse). We can not kick them out of school - the government won't let us. That pupil then becomes unteachable - they don't have to listen because they know their parents will back them. We do not have a culture where schools and educators are valued and held in high regard. The media makes sure of that. We are continually told to prove ourselves. It makes discipline difficult because parents, pupils, the government and everyone else continually challenge our methods. Just look at how silly the media gets when a head teacher sends pupils home for incorrect uniform. It doesn't matter that the parents have had several letters detailing the correct uniform. It doesn't matter that the head warned that there would be a short grace period before there would be zero tolerance for incorrect uniform. Parents and tv presenters bleat on about how the head is wasting learning time because little Jonny came in in black trainers instead of school shoes....what does it matter what he wears on his feet....schools should be focused on teaching....blah blah. The fact is, a rule has been broken. A change of attitude I'd needed before we can address the issues in our education system.

Loki I think it goes both ways. I sometimes think parents and their opinions aren't respected enough. All this partnership crap is just a front often put on for Ofsted with parental questionnaires that are never listened to and major annoyance if anything negative is so much as mentioned.

I also think some schools in the leafier areas rely on intake just a bit too much which can frustrate parents and doesn't foster good relations.Parents aren't daft.Schools need to own poor results more,they'd get a lot more respect. The constant squabbling between unions and the gov is tedious for parents. Nobody expects perfection but simply ownership when things could be better and a plan.

That said I've seen what you describe as regards the trip and think it's ridiculous. The sad faced Daily Mail stories don't help.

It's all in the thread title as others have pointed out......
Write 100 lines of the title duly corrected and report back.

It's one reason I pay school fees in the UK although there are 2 Chinese boys in their year and the school has exchanges with China - we all have things to gain from each other.

My children do well because they work hard. Not everyone in the UK has that same ethic which is wonderful because it means those of us who do can get ahead of them.
(and 99% of Chinese do not live in poverty)

I agree with both Loki and Lily. Parents nowadays are too quick to back their kids up blindly. "Oh my little Tarquin would never do that". Well your little cherub is a spoilt little shit.

Teachers also aren't perfect but then personally i don't expect them to be. They are a reflection of society. And given the constant political meddling, the lack of discipline options, the lack of support from parents and society as a whole. Is it any wonder we've a load of teachers who are despondent?

My aunt is a super teacher in Hong Kong. Her renumeration is probably as much as a company director. It's taken her a long time to get to that level of course. But in the UK she'd never get to that.

An interesting discussion I had with her once comparing UK to HK education. She was telling me how hard it is nowadays in HK. Kids threaten to kill themselves apparently if you give them too much homework. I replied that in this country they'd probably just threaten to kill you. She couldn't imagine that ever happening. It is simply unheard of.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a blind teacher knows best supporter. Lord knows I've challenged my kids teachers on few occasions. The only difference is I would never do it in front of my kids and would never undermine them.

I agree it goes both ways. I can only speak for my school, but we follow parental feedback up. Part of my job is to devise an action plan from the feedback we get. Obviously, you can't please everyone - we couldn't help the parent who felt that the location of the school was a problem. However, we have just spend a couple of thousand pounds on an online homework system because parents felt that they never knew what homework their children had and, therefore, couldn't ensure that it got done. Parents will now have an app on the phone so that they can see. Education does work best when schools and parents support each other. That includes the school supporting parents too - I can't give examples but part of the pastoral system means that we support parents on not - school issues too. I love my job, but I'd love to find a way to bridge the gap too.

non-school ^ autocorrect fail!