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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

558 replies

cabbagesouppirate · 30/07/2015 08:57

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

OP posts:
bluefay · 30/07/2015 14:58

Swarm just means a large amount and there is no denying that there is a huge amount of people in Calais, I agree with OP totally they should be grateful they are in France.

toomuchtooold · 30/07/2015 15:01

I can't see that there is any moral case for the UK turning back refugees. Most refugees will turn up in the northern Mediterranean countries but all peaceful countries have a moral responsibility to take are of people whose lives and way of life is at risk in their home country. Maybe if Britain was taking more than its fair share there would be a case to answer. But actually the countries that take the most refugees per head of native population are the ones that are seeing the most trouble themselves - Jordan, Syria, Lebanon - and the big hitters from Europe are Sweden (1 refugee per 74 locals) and Germany (1 refugee per 144 locals). Britain's away down the list at one refugee per 300-odd locals. We don't pull our weight.

It seems like there is some pull for refugees to come to the UK - maybe English, maybe existing communities - and I did wonder to myself whether it would be better within the EU to let asylum seekers live where they like and split the costs among all the countries. Except, what costs? Once these people can work, you can be sure they will be a credit to your society. Imagine, we get to import educated, motivated young workers for free. Lucky us. I tell you, I'd much rather share a country with any refugee than with the people on this thread who want to keep them out.

Coffeemarkone · 30/07/2015 15:02

" Swarm just means a large amount and there is no denying that there is a huge amount of people in Calais "

No, 'swarm' does not 'just mean a large amount', do not try to be disingenous. You know very well it is the language of insects, of infestations and of the pest controller.

frankieboy23 · 30/07/2015 15:08

You think to deep coffee lol its another throw away word

ghostyslovesheep · 30/07/2015 15:11

Well done Coffee, Friend and Shove - and others who save this thread from being one of the most depressing I've ever read on MN

well said - this place has turned oddly cruel lately

JassyRadlett · 30/07/2015 15:14

The 'average Joe' in our country helps to elect governments and hold them to account.

If they give a shit about these issues, there are many things they can do. Writing to their MP and to relevant ministers would be a simple and effective first step.

ghostyslovesheep · 30/07/2015 15:14

also why not say 'a large amount of people'

we refer to these HUMANS as 'asylum seekers' 'immigrants' 'swarms' 'Migrants' - these are people - like you and I not cattle, insects or invaders

Coffeemarkone · 30/07/2015 15:14

NO, it is NOT a 'throwaway' word. Words in PM speeches are invariably very carefully chosen. That is why they have 'speechwriters' - somebody who chooses the most effective words and puts them into a "speech" for politicians to wind up the country with.. Maybe you think 'too shallow'?.

By the by every single word in Churchill's famous 'Beaches' speech was carefully chosen to get to the public, every single word.

If you think 'throwaway' words are used at random in PM's speeches, you are incredibly naive.

bluefay · 30/07/2015 15:15

toomuchtohold

Britain has it's fair share of immigrants along with other countries such as German and Sweden, by fair share what do you mean. Like many users have said resources are limited enough and who knows what illness they are bringing with them. Most of the people from Calais are from third world countries and seem to be young men by themselves, I will post a link to a source which is interesting considering if they bring their children along it is definitely a swarm. kff.org/global-indicator/total-fertility-rate/

frankieboy23 · 30/07/2015 15:18

Naive, i must be. Hey ho

Holowiwi · 30/07/2015 15:19

Right so the people who want this problem resolved quick question are you willing to go without or better phrased are you willing to let go of the excesses you enjoy in comparison with the rest of the world. The only way to solve this is to stop the exploitation of these countries so that they have a damn chance to improve. But we won't because then we would be screwed we use up so much of their resources, we take some much of their food.

"The world today produces enough grain alone to provide every human being on the planet with 3,500 calories a day.' That's enough to make most people fat! And this estimate does not even count many other commonly eaten foods-vegetables, beans, nuts, root crops, fruits, grass-fed meats, and fish. In fact, if all foods are considered together, enough is available to provide at least 4.3 pounds of food per person a day. That includes two and half pounds of grain, beans and nuts, about a pound of fruits and vegetables, and nearly another pound of meat, milk and eggs."

And yet people are starving! Where do you think all that food goes?

It's so frustating seeing people target their anger at these migrants when if they were in the same position they would probably be doing the same thing, but the accident of birth simply put them here and those people there. I am not saying that letting all these people in is the thing to do but we need to actually put some thought in if we want to fix this long term otherwise it will never be resolved.

Also can we stick to facts someone mentioned earlier that there are 59million displaced people and they are all coming to europe...no you are wrong developing countries host 86% of the worlds refugees. Next fact most migrants that come to europe are not heading to the UK there are many countries that receive more applications the the UK for example Romania and they are not exactly a economic powerhous are they.

MrsJorahMormont · 30/07/2015 15:21

It's such a difficult issue and I hate all the mudslinging that goes on on MN - on BOTH sides! You can be compassionate AND think that unlimited immigration is impossible.

The truth is many probably are economic refugees but who can blame them? If I thought I could move to have a better life in their situation, I would do it.

Equally though they can't behave like criminals and harass and intimidate lorry drivers and Britain CAN'T take huge numbers of non EU citizens. There's already such pressure on the system. I live in an area with few non-EU migrants but even the influx of Polish workers changed the landscape of our local area - things like pressure on schools to provide EFL lessons and more pressure on maternity units. And these were people who came to work AND have the right to be here.

In the longterm there needs to be more economic aid to the countries they come from. In the short term - it's difficult. Improving conditions in Calais will help those there but attract more migrants. It would be useful to target the criminal gangs making a fortune from this, telling people to destroy their papers etc. so it's impossible to know where to return them to.

Coffeemarkone · 30/07/2015 15:23

" Naive, i must be. Hey ho "

frankly, yes you must be, if you think a politician scribbles down a few 'throwaway' words for his speeches on the back of an old envelope. And people who question words used 'think too much'
'lol' (I quote)

toomuchtooold · 30/07/2015 15:24

bluefay by fair share I mean a proportionate share of all the people who apply for asylum in Europe and get it. Because we're an island we get off fairly lightly with countries like Germany taking far more people in total and the likes of Sweden taking in far, far more compared to the number of locals. I live in Germany (oh the horror, another migrant) and it's distasteful to hear people talk about "ueberschwemmung" and seeing Merkel telling an African girl there's no more space, but at least here they do take a lot of the refugees who come to Europe.
Also in case you're interested, I know a couple of refugees here, both men - one from Burma who came alone and had to wait and work and save money to get his wife and girls here too, and one from Turkish Kurdistan who is married but doesn't have children, because there was never enough peace for them to be able to risk having children.

frankieboy23 · 30/07/2015 15:26

Your more than welcome to your opinion.

IceBeing · 30/07/2015 15:27

It is hypocritical to say people shouldn't come to this country unless you would be willing to live in the country they are coming from.

Do people really feel they did something special and note worthy simply by being born in the right place that means they deserve a life of clean water, decent food, a roof over their heads, health care, not getting shot at or raped, while all these 'migrants' don't?

You don't get to choose where you were born. Being British isn't a talent or a skill or something you worked hard for...it was handed to you on a plate. The people who got handed a different plate at birth are just as valid people and just as deserving of a good life as you are.

Coffeemarkone · 30/07/2015 15:27

" Your more than welcome to your opinion."

"lol" I know that thanks, your welcome too. Grin

MorrisZapp · 30/07/2015 15:28

What use is empathy from internet users? Either we can let them in or we can't. And nobody is suggesting letting them all in so even empathy would seem to have a limit.

FriendofBill · 30/07/2015 15:31

Well said Holowiwi
There is enough for everyone's need but not for everyone's greed (Ghandhi)

The resources of the planet belong to everyone on the planet, equally.

MorrisZapp · 30/07/2015 15:31

IceBeing how does your empathy work in practice, beyond sympathising with refugees?

MrsUltracrepidarian · 30/07/2015 15:33

NONE of them have a valid asylum claim in the UK . They must make a claim in the first safe country they enter

Precisely - thy should be returned to France who can figure out they came in and return them there.

My sympathy is with the lorry drivers, whose vehicles are vandalised, an the French police do not bother to arrest the vandals Sad

bluefay · 30/07/2015 15:34

How can you have a propitiate share of immigrants it just doesn't work, some countries have got more resources and space in their countries where others don't. To the poster who suggested Britain should help the immigrants countries loads of aid is distrubited you can lead a horse to water but you can't force them to drink it. When the NHS and so many facilities are being cut priorities need to be seen. They choose to come all the way to the UK when they could of gone to nearby continents. Just look at places like Bradford and Peterborough.

SuperFlyHigh · 30/07/2015 15:35

I do wonder that if we were ever in the same situation - starving etc and the shoe was on the other foot would we get the same treatment? somehow I doubt it...

but having said that I do think you must be desperate beyond measure to cling to underside of an aeroplane, or risk drowning in a boat from Libya....

long term something should be done to help those fleeing persecution etc have a better life back in their own countries or else a lot of European countries will be forever helping economic migrants/asylum seekers etc.

FriendofBill · 30/07/2015 15:41

It's not really about people migrating here, and living like us, that won't solve anything, only for the few who get here.

It's more about addressing global inequalities. Everybody is so scared they won't get theirs. they want equality as long as they are a bit more equal!

There's only one world. Our disunity is destroying it. Making a hell of heaven.

Coffeemarkone · 30/07/2015 15:42

" hey choose to come all the way to the UK when they could of gone to nearby continents. Just look at places like Bradford and Peterborough."

which 'nearby' continents would those be then?

OK Bradford - ever hear of the 'rape of India', of the East India company, of what happened in the Punjab, or the partition of India?

Peterborough - would it be the Polish you are aiming at this time?
I have never ever met a Polish person on the dole, FYI.

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