to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

"Just to give some accurate context ...Over 60 per cent of asylum applications in the whole of Europe are made in two countries. ...Sweden and germany"

That makes sense. Better lifestyles in both of these countries compared to the UK. If I was able to afford it, I'd move to Sweden or Germany in a heart beat. Beats this sh*thole.

*On a few issues which have been raised by previous posters:
has crime increased? No

has the standard of education in local schools declined as a result of more immigration? No*

Well if we are going by anecdotal evidence then surely the opposite of this is true in some scenarios as has been stated on this thread?

YeOldeTrout

well, it's way off the topic of the thread, so apologies to anyone else, but...
Health insurance in Germany is compulsory, and consists of a highly confusing mixture of public and private companies. You pay monthly health insurance costs of between about 50 to 500 Euros, the amount depending on income, which insurance company, and whether you are a student or not. Visits to the doctor do not have a co-pay. Prescription medicine has a co-pay for adults, though not for children, but the maximum co-pay is usually around 10 Euros. If you are on a low-income, and have high medical bills, you can apply to get that money back.
Waiting time is an issue at the pediatrician, but is particularly long because of the part of town we live in. The receptionists and doctors include Turkish, Arab and Russian speakers, so the practice has an unusually large number of families wanting to visit it. We go there because it is the closest, and don't want to trek across town when our son is ill, but in other areas people may wait as little as 10 minutes, or so I'm told.
Where the system does truly come into its own is choice of doctor, the need to see a specialist, or the case of ongoing medical needs. You can self refer to a specialist if you want, you can choose any doctor you want to, anywhere in town, and the care in the case of ongoing medical needs - which is unfortunately the case in our family - is truly outstanding.
I've lived in six different countries before Germany, (one was the UK), across four continents, and the health care here has been the best of all those places.

"Please tell me you're a troll. Please don't tell me you think that refugees from Syria and Kurdistan pass by Sweden on the way to the UK."

Well, looking at a world map, you need to travel west from Syria to get to the UK and on route there you pass Germany and Sweden which are nearer than the UK. Much easier to go north to Sweden on your travels than travel all the way across Europe to get to the UK.

No, I'm not a troll. I have been posting on MN for years.

Anzu, thank you for the insight to how the Germans do things with healthcare, have really learnt something today.
I had no idea.
I think people are just fed up with politicians, they make decisions which have a knock on effect on normal folk, then just walk away. It never seems to affect them at all. The whole situation is a mess. There are few answers.

Europe is not policing the world. The vast majority of syrian refugees are in Jordan and Lebanon and turkey. Much poorer countries than the UK and currently feeding and housing literally millions of syrians and that is in additon to the afgans Palestine answer etc already living there.

There is a major global crisis if displacement by war taking place and Europe needs to do its bit to help.

The UK is doing almost nothing to help the refugees fleeing syria and it is so depressing to see people on this thread talk as though the heartbreaking situation in Calais is in some way an affront to them personally

Its not an affront tò me, im just concerned how the Uk will cope with more people to, clothe and feed. Thats it really. Where is the money coming from, where are the jobs for these men to do? They will end up in,poverty n sub standard accommodation, is this what they want? I can see all sides to the argument. Policies over the years have caused all manor of problems. Yet nobody seems to know what to do.
Money is an issue. We will not be a wealthy country for our own people if we continue to let everyone live here as horrible as that sounds.
We have a govt with austerity measures to save money.. How does that work f we spend millions on immigration? There are already homeless migrants living near hyde park.. Will they send them there?

exactly, also we don't know who these people are or their allegiances. the Hyde park businesses is awful and what about all the illegal sheds in gardens.

Isn't it rather an assumption - and against most evidence - that recent migrants will be a drain on the economy in the short and medium term?

how can they not be, are they going to have money ro rent or buy a house or have savings?

Whilst having compassion for people from less fortunate circumstances than our own and a human need to help the situation in a practical way but the individuals at Calais are not asylum seekers..they would claim asylum in the first safe country and that we are not..France IS a safe one...as is the rest of Europe. By all means once those claiming in the first country could then apply to come here. We should only be allowing that route. If we do take any via Calais then it should be with strict restrictions.
Those trying to get in at Calais are economic/illegal migrants..maybe processing should be sorted/simplified at Calais..those with desirable skills, vetted, verified, considered. No papers..no consideration. We are told they are here not to take advantage of us..they should be able to explain how/where they expect to go/support themselves with no recourse to state. Those that can't are turned away and are Frances responsibility to deport.

Or, they may be exploited and work very long hours in very tough jobs for a very low wage.
And then return to their slum and repeat.

That's the more likely scenario.

Woodhill , politicans and some on this thread think that folk will come to our tiny island and become Alan sugar, never claim a penny, get no help and bring wealth to our shores in droves. I would love this to be the case. Listening to five live and the reception centre in kent, the kids there need help, money, food and shelter. This is all funded by hard pushed councils.
Yet we can take everyone it seems because we're wealthy and we are the good ole UK. Other countries are the same, they are as cheesed off as we are. Again, whats the answer? I dont have it and neither does anyone else. Of course extra people are a drain, its just economics. Population needs to be addressed too.

thanks Anzu (I work in health services delivery)

okay, so back to immigrants... The UK border is functionally in Calais. Is it possible for the Calais-mob go to the UKBA office in Calais and apply for asylum there? Why not? Then we could all say with confidence that the people mobbing lorries were true illegals, no?

They are economic migrants trying to enter illegally. I sympathise with their plight, but rather than a blanket 'come on in' or 'send em all back where they came from' approach there has to be a controlled stream on immigration, I have absolutely no sympathy for migrants in Calais trying to illegally enter the UK when they could take the slower approach of establishing themselves legally in the EU and if they have cultural ties to people in the UK they then legally make their way there after first claiming asylum where they first reach safety.

I'm an immigrant here in the UK. I did not flee from atrocious living conditions, I know I'm lucky to be a privileged white middle class Canadian with the opportunity to move from one country to another with relative ease, but there has to be order, I'm all for economic migrants entering legally, obtaining work, paying taxes and NI, contributing to society and enjoying the benefits of living in Britain, but I somehow doubt most of the migrants will be establishing themselves legally or trying to claim asylum once here. They'll be working illegally and not contributing back to society.

While I feel so sad to think that they believe the UK is some sort of promised land compared to France that they're willing to risk their lives to enter, I can't sympathise with their aims.

Woodhill , politicans and some on this thread think that folk will come to our tiny island and become Alan sugar, never claim a penny, get no help and bring wealth to our shores in droves.

Oh please. Where has anyone said that? Huge exaggeration doesn't make your argument any more credible.

The evidence is what it is - recent migrants, as a group, make a net contribution to the economy. Longer-term that has tended to shift, but it's difficult to tell if that trend will be borne out in changing migration patterns.

I haven't been able to turn up statistics on successful asylum seekers' net impact. It would be interesting to see if there was any evidence that their employment and contribution patterns are different from other immigrants.

But anyway, we wouldn't like to let facts get in the way, right?

They have crossed many countries to get to France why? I don't sympathise with them at all.

Well an interesting statistic on asylum numbers was shown on the bbc - 30% apply in Germany, 10% in France and 5% in the uk - we are hardly taking the lion's share of asylum seekers are we

YeOldeTrout I'm not following your definition of "true illegals" in this context. All the people mobbing trucks and trains are present in France illegally, or they wouldn't be risking life and limb doing it.

France is choosing not to detain people who they know full well are there illegally, just as we do (don't) - it's just that we don't have a concentration in one place trying to leave.

hy not process the asylum seekers in Calais and avoid them risking their own lives or resorting to desperate measures

To make a net contribution don't you need to earn circa 30k? Are you saying the migrants in Calais are going to be earning this sort of money? Really....

maddening Presumably because of the logistics involved - it's not an immediate answer in most cases - and they'd need to be transported to the UK either for detention or release pending processing of their claim. If we started to do that I'd imagine there would be an increase in numbers - and taxpayers would be paying their Eurostar fares which I think might be a little unpopular.

Whilst not questioning the massive contribution made by (some) immigrants, I am a little suspicious of the calculations - paying more in tax than benefits claimed is one thing, but the loading on other services (health, education, policing, housing, public transport, roads) is hard to measure accurately isn't it?

YY DadFromUncle

Interpretation alone cost the NHS 23million in 2012. I don't know what that would be in 2015, a lot more I expect.

MP expenses were 100 million in the same year.