to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

blowin

I just think there are other European countries much closer for migrants to settle in (Sweden, for example). It seems such a ridiculous journey to make. many dying in vain, just to make a life in the UK which really isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Please tell me you're a troll. Please don't tell me you think that refugees from Syria and Kurdistan pass by Sweden on the way to the UK.

My local news had an interesting item on today about how local haulage companies - many of them small businesses - are losing tens of thousands of pounds due to what's happening at Calais. That many small firms face closure and with the prospect of £2000 fine to the drivers per migrant found in their vehicle many drivers are no longer wanting to do the intercontinental runs.

I think because of immigration policy has been so lapse especially during the Blair years the British people are sick of people coming here in general.

how was it 'lapse' ? and how has it changed?

I wouldn't bother posting any opinion on here unless it comes with a seal of approval from the guardian

The haulage firms aren't suffering because of the migrants though. They are suffering because of the inhumane way those migrants are being treated which is forcing them into taking desperate measures. No one wants to stow away in a lorry. They do it due to lack of sensible options....

All the desperately poor and abused people of the world have a right to seek asylum in rich countries.

Under what circumstances does that not lead to the next statement:

So we should organise cheap safe direct transport services for them. That way the criminals would be mostly cut out, the immigrants would arrive with some wealth in their pockets, and innocent babies wouldn't have to die along the way.

the labour government admitted recently their immigration policy was rubbish. I think we have let too many economic migrants into the UK.

Oh ffs, even if they're all declaring they're trying to get into Britain cos they're benefit tourists, their lives can't of been up to much if they're prepared to risk them for £70 a week. What's wrong with a bit of sympathy?
Even if they are benefit tourists, and the government was herding them into UK Jobcentres to claim by the thousands, it's the governments of all the countries involved people should be pissed off at, not the miserable individuals trying to get in.

and the data does ignore the fact that when an immigrant family has a child, that child is then a British citizen

Not quite. Sigh. I know that being painful about facts gets me badged as a Guardian-reading Hay-on-Wye dweller, but it would be good if we got the basics right.

and why do YOU think it was lapse?

I wasn't aware that The Grauniad moderated the NM forum - maybe some one should let HQ no

it's always the way with debates like this - facts get in the way :(

Its not about the £70 a week benefits it's about the rest of it. The whole infrastructure picture. Schools, medical, housing, policing social care...

The likelihood is these migrants will end up homeless and in no better situation than they left in France. So why come here?

Lurked, i do get your point, but its not just 70 is it. Its 70 x 2000 = 140 ,000 and the rest.
If the EU footed the bill for this, housing, water, food I could live with it. If i knew that these folk woukd be properly cared for. Chances are they wont but the tax payers will be coughing up. Again.
And the gangmasters and the real people behind this will be rubbing their hands together.

And the inhumane ways those migrants are being treated...

OK so theyve been made to destroy lorries, goods being transported, cost companies and individuals tens of thousands of pounds. Their behaviour is selfish.

Doe, hear hear. People on hear do not like money being mentioned do they!

doe I typed the same as you and totally agree, never only £70. they shouldn't be here.

or in Calais

I live in Berlin, about 10 minutes walk away from the offices where asylum seekers for Berlin put in the paperwork to apply for asylum, temporary housing, and so on.

Issues about the office, therefore, end up in our local paper. This month, for example, the office has dealt with 4000 applications, which cover the whole of Berlin.

The underground station closest to us is filled with families carrying all their worldly possessions - and they don't amount to much - either on their way to the office, or coming back, with a slip of paper they have been given which gives them the address of somewhere they can stay.

I've lived in the area for 12 years now. When we came here this area was mostly Turkish, with a scattering of other nationalities. Not that many Germans. Over the last few years, the proportion of Turks has decreased, while Arabs have increased, particularly over the last two years. Several buildings which had formerly been government offices or schools have been turned into homes for refugees.

On a few issues which have been raised by previous posters:
has crime increased? No

has the standard of education in local schools declined as a result of more immigration? No

is the area more unsafe, or do I feel the area more unsafe? No, and no.

are all the immigrants young men? No, lots of women and children.

are services stretched, such as waiting at the doctor? Yes, but honestly speaking they weren't all that great to begin with. Nine years ago, I'd have an appointment at the pediatrician, and still be in the waiting room for an hour and a half. Now, it's two hours.

ooh... I'm quite intrigued to hear about medical care in Berlin. Stuff like how long you wait, and then you have to co-pay as well, too, don't you?

I'm not saying the cost is only £70 or that the UK should or even can take them. I mentioned that to demonstrate the point people aren't going to risk death to get that if everything is hunky dory at home. And just that being angry towards the migrants themselves is misdirected, it's the governments of all the countries we should be pissed off at, not some desperate individuals.

Oh, and posted this even though I'm not in the UK or talking about Calais to give concrete examples of how it actually is in Germany compared to all the versions of 'what if'....

And, as other people have said upthread, asylum seeker, immigrant, and economic refugee are not interchangeable terms!

80s, aren't you trying to have it both ways - they'll be both black economy gangmaster fodder with no papers, and living the life of Riley on benefits at the same time?

I don't claim to have short term answers - any solution will be flawed and unfair to some people. But I despair that short-term solutions appear to be the only thing people are interested in. Which means precisely nothing will change.

Lurked, i do agree, but i think people are just fed up with Europe having to police the world when we cant even sort out our own country and problems.
These young men are sold a dream that isnt true. It has to stop.

No, i think,there are people behind this forcing these young men to take risks. I have no evidence, but they have got to france by some means or other. Its all a mess, granted

Lurked, i do agree, but i think people are just fed up with Europe having to police the world when we cant even sort out our own country and problems.

It's interesting - I've heard similar rhetoric in every Western country I've lived in (3 continents).

And it does sidestep the fact that many of the problems in places people are fleeing are not without Western fingerprints all over them...