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Original poster

To think the British government reaction to Calais migrants is pathetic?

227 replies

ribbitTheFrog · 29/07/2015 08:15

It's like they're just putting their heads in the sand. Meanwhile people are dying, hauliers are being threatened, holiday makers having trips ruined.

I'd do the following:

Make clear any illegal entries will be turned back to France. Make clear there are not limitless jobs, housing etc in the UK. Make clear no benefits to new migrants (if this isn't the case then change the law).

Presumably the migrants think the UK has lots of money and opportunities, otherwise they wouldn't be risking their lives to leave France (a safe country).

OP posts:
IndridCold · 29/07/2015 11:46

The EU should fund an education programme in these home countries

rather than spend money on EU citizens ?

Yes of course, why not? The EU already has a foreign aid programme, and EU citizens would benefit as well if it helped sort out problems like Calais, Malta and Lampedusa.

suzanneyeswecan · 29/07/2015 11:47

no thats too obvious, any kind of masterplan ?would need to be more subtle.
We are being stirred up to feel under threat from migrants so that we blame them for things and see them as an enemy ?trying to steal from us

BeyondDespairandRepair · 29/07/2015 11:48

If you are living under a piece of plastic and relying on a soup kitchen you'll try anything to improve your lot

Confused do anything except in Italy, France, Germany, and all the other countries in the EU, Poland, Romania, do anything except try and settle in those countries?

dingit · 29/07/2015 11:50

Why can't France deal with it? They shouldn't let them through their border in the first place.

BeyondDespairandRepair · 29/07/2015 11:51

While I think the situation at Calais is dreadful, I feel very sorry for the people just hoping escape a terrible situation in their own country BUT, but, Calis is not the country they are escaping from? That country was hundreds of miles away and they have passed through many peaceful countries since? Escaping France not the same as escaping Etria.

I agree with your other points garden most of these African countries have huge resources but small power hungry dictators hang on to them all.

suzanneyeswecan · 29/07/2015 11:51

I agree we cant absorb the whole of the
third world in part because that would involve absorbing their dysfunctional institutions behaviors and beliefs systems, we don't want them importing the way of life which has led to the conditions that they want to escape from.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 29/07/2015 11:52

Beyond all of those countries do take migrants. Germany and Italy each take more than we do.

onedayiwillmissthis · 29/07/2015 11:55

guybrush...

No what's fucking ridiculous is being unable to understand that this is not some imaginary, existential debate where we can pat ourselves on the back for being soooo caring.

Yes, our lives are pretty damn good in comparison to theirs. I don't believe anyone would disagree with you there.

But what actually do you suggest is the solution...do you actually have a clue what could possibly work? In reality?

mummymeister · 29/07/2015 11:55

shut the tunnel, straight away and do it now. this is the easiest route of entry and it was always known when it was being built that this would be the case. only doing something radical will send a message now. those genuine asylum seekers with all their papers and doing things properly are being shoved to the back of the queue by a group of young men who have paid criminals to get them to the UK. no papers, no entry. no papers and we put you straight back to France. I know closing the tunnel will disrupt freight holidays etc but tough at the moment. faffing about isn't working. the other eu countries don't give a monkeys because these people transit through with no intention of staying. bring in ID cards and make it abundantly clear that if you pitch up in the UK through non official channels you go straight back. we have been far far too soft on these criminal gangs and the young men who have the money to come in through the back door. we should be concentrating our efforts on the hundreds of families in camps playing by the rules.

Andrewofgg · 29/07/2015 12:01

Why is the fencing round the terminal not electric? Not fatal, just painful electric?

Moreshabbythanchic · 29/07/2015 12:02

Guy where do you suggest we put all these people, there is estimated to be 5,000 in Calais at present with more to come and then they will expect their families to join them.

Why should we accept them when they don't like our way of living and will do their best to change it to be like what they are supposedly running away from.

We have taken in many immigrants in the past and it has led to too many changes, not all good.

magimedi · 29/07/2015 12:05

I can't find the post, but sometime this month someone posted about a suggestion from (I think) the UN committee for refugees about allowing refugess a 3 month visa to come to the UK & try for work. If they can afford the £5/6K that the people smugglers charge, they could afford an air fare.

Wish I could find the post - it made good sense to me.

DadfromUncle · 29/07/2015 12:08

mummymeister We already have ID cards for immigrants.

Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 29/07/2015 12:09

Tenieht what Australia is currently doing is beyond appalling. (For the record, I am Australian). So much so, the UN has condemned it.

mummymeister · 29/07/2015 12:09

magimedi -sorry this idea wont work. how many people do you think we have illegally in the country at the moment who came in on 1 or 2 year "student" visas and then disappeared or claimed asylum to stay and have been stuck in an inefficient and under resourced system. where they have appeal after appeal after appeal and we can never send them back to their country of origin because they have settled have kids and is against their human rights to split a family. if you let people in on 3m temp visas they will just stay and be happy to be jogged along by the system,

no the system is wrong. we allow too much time and too many appeals. you have overstayed your visa that's it you are out no appeal no nothing. you have come in without papers at all. you go back until you can find them. we are a tiny island and we just don't have the space or the financial resources to be the sisters of mercy of the world.

DadfromUncle · 29/07/2015 12:12

magimedi There is zero chance that anyone on such a visa would go home if they didn't want to and almost zero chance they would get caught.

A lot of people contributing to this debate aren't thinking about the numbers, costs or practicalities.

mummymeister · 29/07/2015 12:16

agreed dadfromuncle. if you say anything that isn't welcoming people with open arms then you are shouted down as a racist. I most certainly am not. I want to provide more for genuine asylum seekers who have gone through the proper channels. the government is being far too woolly. extra fences what an absolute joke. if you don't follow the right procedures then you have no right to be here. if the govt don't get a grip it wont be long before we read about the death of a lorry driver or holidaymaker. it is genuinely scary to be approached by these groups of young men with knives, pulling at the tarpaulin, forcing the doors and banging on the windows. it has to stop.

onedayiwillmissthis · 29/07/2015 12:16

mummymeister...

I think that might help temprarily...but would probably just move the problem to the ports.

And how would our European partners react? What would their solution be to deal with these illegal immigrants once the numbers start to build up.

This is not just a problem for us. It's not just about us having to sit in queues, messing up our holidays. It's a problem for all of Europe. And all of Europe need to act together to solve it.

And unfortunately we won't solve it with rescue missions in the MediterraneanSad

Nor by turning a blind eye and hoping they just move on to another country.

The numbers are too great.

And as these numbers of mainly young, strong men leave their home countries, these home countries in turn become less able to bring about any economic or social improvement.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/07/2015 12:16

Degusti, can you speak a little more about what is happening in Australia please.

specialsubject · 29/07/2015 12:16

somebody mentioned the 'bottom billion' - all those born in the world's shitholes, deserts or jungles run by corrupt dictators and religious nuts.

the only long-term solution is for everyone on the planet to have a decent place to live, by making their home countries decent too.

that means intervention to get rid of the corrupt leaders so that foreign aid gets correctly used, build decent infrastructure, provide education, food and water for all and ensure everyone has access to contraception.

if anyone has the magic wand to do that, please go ahead. I can only hope one day we (that is all six billion of us) will learn some sense.

Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 29/07/2015 12:21

{{http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/25/doctors-association-demands-end-to-the-inhumane-treatment-of-asylum-seekers]] just one example

And this is beyond wrong (and makes me so, so angry):

www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h3008

Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 29/07/2015 12:23

So please don't say Australians are getting their policies right because the current state of affairs is disgusting & inhumane. Angry

mummymeister · 29/07/2015 12:24

specialsubject. there will always be a bottom billion that is how statistics work. like there will always be child poverty because there will always be a 10% at the bottom of the income list or education list. we cant wave a magic wand. but neither can we keep putting sticking plasters over it. of course no one can argue with your comment about a decent place to live but it will never ever happen - never. that doesn't mean we shouldn't try but it means that we need to target our efforts at those who follow the proceedures and have their papers and deal effectively with those that don't. the world is never going to be fair because it isn't.

onedayiwillmissthis · 29/07/2015 12:28

specialsubject...

yes...we need to assist these countries to enable improvement.

But Europe cannot accept the numbers who are now (and will in future unless we can find a way to prevent them) entering.

I have no faith that the majority populations of Europe will tolerate either these amounts of people...extreme solutions will be suggested...and shouted down in disgust by many...but in the end?

No, in the end we will have war(s).
Something very few of us have experienced will become part of our lifeSad